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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Fruit Inspections

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roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: We must inspect, discern, judge, open our eyes!!

Quote:
It isn't by our inspection that we shall know them.
It is by their fruit that we shall "know" them.



Of course we must inspect., or else how will we know them? If we don’t inspect fruit, we will fail to notice that some good-looking fruit is rotten.

I fear that the word “judge” has fallen into ill repute. It’s become something evil.
It’s not! Judging is our responsibility. However, as Compton pointed out, a lot of people have very bad eye-sight, and so are bad judges. These people have to go to the “eye doctor”.

Quote:
"Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire."

I used to wonder if the bad tree that was cut down and burned was really a metaphor for a fake Christian on his way to hell.

That was how I saw "them." But now I have another idea what this scripture means…it is the Lord’s deliverance at work in my own decietful heart.


Great fruit tree analogy, Compton. Add to that the fact that God's pruning work in our hearts also heals our eyesight.


When someone says, “I don’t want to judge,” are they saying, ‘I don’t want to condemn,” or “I don’t want to discern (inspect)”? I fear that in order to avoid condemning, many do not bother to discern. No wonder we put bad fruit in the “pulpits” of our minds, and follow them like sheep.

There is another very monstrous problem that results from our failure to be good fruit inspectors: We give countless people a free eternal assurance policy. We assume that they are saved and they are not. Of course, we can’t always tell. But if all you see is bad fruit, and you still assume they are in the kingdom… well…. you certainly won’t be burdened for their souls, will you.

God calls us to judge (inspect/discern), but never to condemn.

May God raise up a host of good judges (fruit inspectors) for the sake of his Church.

Diane


_________________
Diane

 2006/4/10 8:27Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: Spirit Discernment

Quote:
How does one determine or discern who is a dog or swine and what do we do with dogs and swine, besides "throw them out".


Annie, I have sometimes cast my pearls before swine and then discovered them trample all over me. For example I have shared the vulnerable aspects of my spiritual journey, only to have the "swine" accuse me of something that is not true - and then gossip it all around. We have to learn whom we can trust with the pearls of our heart - with the treasures of Christ. We have to learn when to "shake off the dust".

This is another reason to learn how to inspect fruit in conjunction with the promptings of the Spirit.

9For this reason,
since the day we heard about you,
we have not stopped praying for you
and asking God to fill you with the knowledge of his will through all spiritual wisdom and understanding.
10And we pray this in order that
you may live a life worthy of the Lord and may please him in every way:
bearing fruit in every good work,
growing in the knowledge of God,
Diane


_________________
Diane

 2006/4/10 8:47Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3348
Texas

 Re:

Quote:

roadsign wrote:
Of course we must inspect., or else how will we know them?
Diane



Um, Maybe by their fruits, I think were we are looking at this wrong, there are different levels of "inspect" I personally don't have to look at a woman or man very long to know which is which "well maybe today you have to look a tad harder :-P " I don't have to inspect in other words I can just look, same with by their fruits I can just look at the way they live their lives, I don't need to put them on an operating table and disect them to inspect them to check their fruits. :-?


_________________
Bill

 2006/4/10 10:23Profile
rev_eric
Member



Joined: 2006/4/10
Posts: 3
CA

 Re: spiritual discernment

Even though I did not have enough time to go through all of the threads on this, all I can say(and I am sure it is mirrored by others as well)is thank the Lord for the discernnment of His Holy Spirit. This is what really allows us to recognize fruit in one another. :-D


_________________
Eric

 2006/4/10 11:49Profile
rev_eric
Member



Joined: 2006/4/10
Posts: 3
CA

 Re:

I couldnt agree more, roadsign!
In this society, we praise and put the charasmatic on a stool. The one thing that the enemy cannot immitate is the Fruit of the (Holy) Spirit. :-)


_________________
Eric

 2006/4/10 11:56Profile









 Re:

With the "dogs and swine" verses ... I had meant to put a QUESTION mark after that sentence you quoted and for a very pulling reason. Because we who say we don't "judge", are all but daily labeling, here, there, or elsewhere, who we choose to talk to, etc..

I don't particularly care for the Alpha course method of getting to a point, and was questioned myself for starting a thread with a question also.

It's like - let's just get right to the point and like Paul would - he didn't have time to sit around with folks and ask endless questions to get at an answer or just like the Alpha Course, go on and on with "opinions" and not THE WORD but tongues-sticking-out icons only in almost all of our posts, mocking in essence the others.

I think everywhere here on this board and in the churches - everywhere - we need to get down to brass tacks because obviously this method isn't working and whether people choose to believe it or not - Time Is getting short and too short for games and pussy-footing around.

[u]We can't even judge our own hearts.[/u]
If Any one thinks that they "know" their own heart, they are totally deluded.
That's the worse case of delusion that comes just before the Grand one.

Yet, that swine and dog verse was in the same discourse of Jesus', as was this thread topic of "discerning fruit of prophets or teachers".

Mike went on to - how do we apply this to those who aren't "them" ?

Well, there ya go ---- who do you decide are pigs and dogs - because that decision is made just on this one site enough by each person --- whether it's here on board or at work - Wherever.

Yes Diane .... I've been scalded in boiling water by folks .... but I will not call them pigs or dogs .... I pray they will see what on earth that they are doing and come to a knowledge of truth just as I pray to be not found wanting when I see Him for myself ... but it is not for me to call them pigs or dogs.

Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Notice that this pig/dog verse is Jesus' next breath.
He's saying no motes and beams for "fault finding in nit-picky things" BUT when it comes to those things which are HOLY and Represent the teaching of The Kingdom (which pearls represent), don't waste your time with those who should know better, once the "discernment" is given you, what they are about and that they truly don't Want Truth, in it's fullest sense.

[b]Discernment[/b] is the bottomline here - because WE CANNOT JUDGE A MAN'S HEART - but the Lord will reveal unto His Elect "what" we're dealing with, with certain folks.

The pigs and dogs has Nothing to do with sharing our heart and then being backstabbed or "gossiped" about. That is Not what that verse is talking about.
It's 'NOT ABOUT US' at all ... actually NONE of it is - when we're talking about what this thread is intended for ... it's TRUTH AGAINST NON-TRUTH in the final analysis and CANNOT be for or be led in ANY other direction --- because 'Truth' is the issue, now and Forever.
Boil it down friend ! See where this thread is going ???

You're a sharp cookie ... but keep the focal point that it has to be - nothing of "us" ... our reputation, our opinions, Nothing matters a feather's weight in the Kingdom ... Only that which is Spirit and Truth is on the Line Now.
HIS GLORY - not our opinions or feelings or reputations, etc. etc. etc..

HE "IS" THE [b]TRUTH[/b]. And that's the BATTLE OF THE AGES. LIES AGAINST TRUTH. "FLESH" AGAINST SPIRIT. The battle since Cain rages on until the end or our end with the "beheadings" of Revelation.

HIS TRUTH. That's what dogs and swine hate and that's how you can tell.
When they are "fed" --- how do they eat ???

Dogs and swine eat about the same. They don't eat like the real McCoy -- The Sheep.

Yes, you're right ... at that point you do brush the sand off your feet ... 'IF' God tells you go.
All 'discernment' even, has to be "tested" to be sure it isn't our [u]deceitful/flesh/heart[/u].

If we're willing to have our "heart's" broken for the TRUTH'S sake, then we're getting on the right track with all of this.

But let's just say what we mean and mean what we say and be sure we know that what we are saying is divinely inspired somehow - else our enemies destroy "truth" in the eyes of those desirous of it, by the demonic scheme of killing the messenger ... as what this dog/swine thing is really focusing on.
It's not about "us", it's about the Holy things and Pearl things of God in Christ .... whether it be about "false prophets and teachers or dogs and swine" .... it's TRUTH AGAINST the LIES always ..... Until He Comes.

 2006/4/10 16:48
brentw
Member



Joined: 2005/12/14
Posts: 440
Ohio

 Re:

Quote:
In this society, we praise and put the charasmatic on a stool. The one thing that the enemy cannot immitate is the Fruit of the (Holy) Spirit.



When I read this I thought of Ravenhill who said "the devil cant fake a holy life" he can fake everything else. rev eric...great statement!


_________________
Brent

 2006/4/10 17:59Profile









 Re: In SPIRIT AND TRUTH.

Diane said ~ "Of course we must inspect., or else how will we know them?"

Yes, that is BY 'THE WORD OF GOD' and "discernment" is by The Spirit, as I posted above.

We cannot know what a man is "in his heart or in secret places -- where his wife may not even know about" .... but that is where "discernment" that ONLY GOD can give comes in.

BUT - going back to your quote above ... YES, where it comes to false teacher's and prophet's "TEACHINGS OR WORDS" ... [u]THIS[/u] is where we are to INSPECT 'BY' HIS WORD.

And the only way to know how to Inspect ... as in --- "a fruit "inspector" goes to "training" on "how" to 'inspect' the "fruit of Teachings or Prophecies"" ..... is by "Studying" to show thyself APPROVED UNTO "GOD", a WORK-MAN that needeth not to be ashamed, [b]][u]rightly[/u] dividing the Word of Truth.[/b]


If a man is "obviously" a sinner, than what is there to inspect ??? So this is [b]not[/b] about "THE OBVIOUS" as in - "is he demonstrating to [b]us[/b] love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

IF - IF - IF - that were the case, then all of us are Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves .......... because, find for me ONE MAN OR WOMAN who can have that fruit Inspected by all and not be found wanting. See ???

This is NOT about the fruit of The Spirit of Gal. 5 and that SHOULD be obvious or none of us could ever open our Mouths or keyboards again.

Jesus was WARNING us here of something far more Dangerous and subtle and hard to uncover, IF you combine this verse with 'all others' about the Last Days False Prophets AND Teachers.

IF it were possible - even the Elect would be deceived .... so let's see JESUS' WORDS here and not make this "fruit" a lesser "fruit" than what HE Meant.

Whether it be these heretics - false teachers/prophets, who may display the Gal 5 fruit [u]in the flesh, just as New Agers do[/u] ... but are those "righteous ministers of Christ" that are actually from Satan himself ..... or if we're looking at who are dogs and swine .....
we're right back again to IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH.

The SPIRIT 'discerns' the 'hidden nature' of the beast and 'THE TRUTH/HIS WORD' discerns if he/she is IN Truth.

 2006/4/10 18:42
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: turth 'r us

MeAgain, you have lots of good points. There is one I would like to challenge:

Quote:
The pigs and dogs has Nothing to do with sharing our heart and then being backstabbed or "gossiped" about. That is Not what that verse is talking about.


Christ said that whatever others do to us, they do to him. We ARE Christ's living letters. We are not separate from his truth. When we share from our heart, we are sharing from a part of us that Christ is united with. We carry his truth as part of us. We identify with him, in suffering and rejection when the swine trample on us - or rather, our words.

Now, I admit, some people get trampled on because they are just being obnoxious, overzealous, "evangelists" trying to push God on everybody. (another topic)
Here again, is a need for fruit inspection. Not all who are zealous for God are fruit-bearers.
Diane


_________________
Diane

 2006/4/10 20:29Profile









 Re:

Diane, you know that you are more than welcomed, by me, to challenge anything I write.

Quote:

roadsign wrote:
MeAgain, you have lots of good points. There is one I would like to challenge:
Quote:
The pigs and dogs has Nothing to do with sharing our heart and then being backstabbed or "gossiped" about. That is Not what that verse is talking about.


Christ said that whatever others do to us, they do to him. We ARE Christ's living letters. We are not separate from his truth. When we share from our heart, we are sharing from a part of us that Christ is united with. We carry his truth as part of us. We identify with him, in suffering and rejection when the swine trample on us - or rather, our words.

Now, I admit, some people get trampled on because they are just being obnoxious, overzealous, "evangelists" trying to push God on everybody. (another topic)
Here again, is a need for fruit inspection. Not all who are zealous for God are fruit-bearers.
Diane



We must look at this Verse and what it is talking about ...

[b]Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.[/b]

It is not a "personal" affront that Christ meant here. If that were the case, we'd seldom share.

What He has said here is about "that which is HOLY" and "Pearls".

This verse means, we are to "discern FIRST" if we are dealing with "swine or dogs" BEFORE we "GIVE".

He didn't say after ... and after we were trampled ,,, but he said "lest they trample [b]them[/b] under their feet"

Of course you see the "them" is the HOLY things we may haved shared and The Pearls.

Because if we do share with them these things, they that Hate Truth will "trample the Truth" and the Messenger.

It is not "us" who are trampled in this verse but The Truth, but if we do not take HIS caution and "disern before" who it is we share what "to" ... and we DO share Truth with swine and dogs .... then the TRUTH will be "trampled" and we as the messengers of it will be "torn into pieces", because they hate the truth and don't want it published or spread.

This is a PRE-cautionary warning from the Chief Shepherd.

It is "Wolves" that tear up the true Sheep.

Again, "It's Not About Us". (that's a song :)

You said - "when" the swine trample on us ......... "

If they are truly the "swine" that Jesus was speaking of in this verse we were discussing, then He's trying to tell us ... those are the ones, that had our "ears" been open to His Voice and His Word .... "HE" would have given us "discernment" to NOT share these HOLY things with them.


If we suffer 'otherwise' for the Truth ... so be it and SMILE. Blessed are ye .... :-D

God Bless.

 2006/4/10 20:52





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