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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Dancing in the Church

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roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: take a deeper look at the problem

This thread was posted in the Scriptures and Doctrine forum – specifically inviting discussion about the theology of dancing. However, as I look back over the thread, I think that there are some key elements that are being ignored.

1.Apparently one of the dancers belonged to the youth group. So, clearly, these are not adults. They are kids.
2.Also, the church leaders were permitting this.
3.Those who expressed concern were “made to feel” that they were in the wrong.

I’d like to encourage more thinking here by sharing an unrelated situation:

I sometimes visit a school where there has been bullying in the playground, in spite of attempts to snuff it out. Then, when I walk past the classrooms, I see the teachers themselves bullying the children into submission. Now, I ask, Where do the children learn that bullying is the way to handle those who don’t do what you like? Don’t you see a double standard here? Young folk merely express outwardly the beliefs and behaviors of their adult authorities.

Could it be that way with our dancing duo? Where do they learn what it means to “move in the spirit”?

All too often, from what I have seen “move in the spirit”, let the spirit move you”, “do however you feel led”, all mean ‘DO YOUR OWN THING’, ie follow your instincts.

If the adults in the church are doing their own thing, ie indulging at potlucks, being inconsiderate towards others, motivated by their own lower instincts, impulsive, living however they feel best, then I ask, HOW ARE THE YOUNG ONES SUPPOSED TO KNOW ANY DIFFERENT?

Think how powerful the kids feel over the adults when they see that they can do what they want even when adults express objection.

I believe that it won’t do any good to merely stop the unacceptable behavior without also promoting maturity by offering something better: the REAL thing – true spiritual life in Christ. Our youth need a better foundation to stand on than the front pew and an impotent religious system.

Let’s not scapegoat the young folk for the failures of the adults.

Just a few thoughts….

Diane


_________________
Diane

 2006/4/9 6:15Profile
Smokey
Member



Joined: 2005/2/21
Posts: 417
Edmonton Alberta Cda.

 Re:



I almost forgot, how silly of me, find someone else to blame for our bad behavior. Well in my case it was Eve's fault, after all she ate from the tree that she was told not to eat from, so everything is her fault, so I should be able to get away with anything I want, and just blame her..When Jesus calls me to account, I will just point at Eve, and say "It's all her fault".

If this is really what you think roadsign, I would suggest you check out scripture a little closer, because I believe it teaches we are responsable for our own actions..

Blessings Greg
:-o


_________________
Greg

 2006/4/9 10:41Profile
deltadom
Member



Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1910
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

My heart has been that people would dance in church so that the night clubs would be empty I used to dance abit in that kind of scene and loathe it with a vengence.
I think Christian Dancing should be different that Worldly Dancing as we are Dancing to are savior.
I think it was Richard Wembrant in prison that was when he got his feet damaged when they tried to make him not dance and sing to the Lord even thou they had been through much sorrow.
If you notice there is worldy dancing in exodus.To me sometimes it is better people dancing in church than it is in nightclubs but hopefully not the same way as in the nightclub.
That was one of the strong things that kept me in church dancing used to be quite regular in one of the youth camps to praise and worship music, I found it much more better than the rubbish from the world.There was one time when I was so miserable that I danced to the Lord out on the street, because I thought I might aswell praise and worship him it had been a really bad day.
This is a very complex issue. it says to love the Lord with all you body mind and strenght and I guess that isnt passive.
The Israelis are much more passionate about dancing if you know anything about Messiniac Christianity.I know I have got some things wrong, may the lord multiply my zeal for him a hundread fold so that I can dance even more for him.

Jud 21:21 - Show Context
And see, and, behold, if the daughters of Shiloh come out to dance in dances, then come ye out of the vineyards, and catch you every man his wife of the daughters of Shiloh, and go to the land of Benjamin.

Job 21:11 - Show Context
They send forth their little ones like a flock, and their children dance.

Ps 149:3 - Show Context
Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.

Ps 150:4 - Show Context
Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.

Ec 3:4 - Show Context
A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

Isa 13:21 - Show Context
But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there.

Jer 31:13 - Show Context
Then shall the virgin rejoice in the dance, both young men and old together: for I will turn their mourning into joy, and will comfort them, and make them rejoice from their sorrow.

La 5:15 - Show Context
The joy of our heart is ceased; our dance is turned into mourning.

Ex 32:19 - Show Context
And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing: and Moses' anger waxed hot, and he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount.

1Sa 18:6 - Show Context
And it came to pass as they came, when David was returned from the slaughter of the Philistine, that the women came out of all cities of Israel, singing and dancing, to meet king Saul, with tabrets, with joy, and with instruments of musick.

1Sa 30:16 - Show Context
And when he had brought him down, behold, they were spread abroad upon all the earth, eating and drinking, and dancing, because of all the great spoil that they had taken out of the land of the Philistines, and out of the land of Judah.

2Sa 6:16 - Show Context
And as the ark of the LORD came into the city of David, Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the LORD; and she despised him in her heart.

1Ch 15:29 - Show Context
And it came to pass, as the ark of the covenant of the LORD came to the city of David, that Michal the daughter of Saul looking out at a window saw king David dancing and playing: and she despised him in her heart.

Ps 30:11 - Show Context
Thou hast turned for me my mourning into dancing: thou hast put off my sackcloth, and girded me with gladness;

Lu 15:25 - Show Context
Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.

2Co 4:10 - Show Context
Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.


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Dominic Shiells

 2006/4/9 12:36Profile
crsschk
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Dancing

Greg, think you might be missing something here...

"Both"

Quote:
2.Also, the church leaders were permitting this.



1Co 14:40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

Why did Paul go to such lengths in explanation?

Sorry Diane, no need of my intrusion on your behalf. But Greg, think you would do well to be less accusatory, maybe ask a question rather than make a statement.

Edit*
Quote:
I guess you just have get good at inspecting fruit.



Diane, this seems to keep coming up in other threads as well, even if it is being used somewhat differently in intent...

Still, not understanding where this idea is truly something we are supposed to be doing. It seems to apply to false prophets. Better, will start another thread, it seems it needs to be looked at more closely.


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Mike Balog

 2006/4/9 13:56Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re: agreement

Quote:
Let’s not scapegoat the young folk for the failures of the adults.



Quote:
If this is really what you think ..., I would suggest you check out scripture a little closer, because I believe it teaches we are responsable for our own actions..



I think Diane would agree with you Smokey. In fact I hear her saying the same thing...she is an adult and instead of blaming the children, she is asking where did they pick up these inappropriate attitudes and behaviors. As an adult she is asking adults to accept more responsibility.

I remember the same conversation popped up in the thread about little children wailing in soul anguish to the Lord ...where do our children learn these unhealthy extremes from beating their chests with tortured spirits to dancing hilariously on the pew?

From spiritually unstable adults perhaps? Unfit examples to the flock? I think Dianes point is not only are we as adults responsible for our own foolishness, but our children suffer because of our foolishness as well.

When the oversight failed to correct them, and would not hear concerns, they are at once responsible for approving it. (At least that's how my children reason...)

MC


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Mike Compton

 2006/4/9 14:46Profile
cheta52
Member



Joined: 2006/3/25
Posts: 4
elgin, il

 Re:

Which dance is in fleshly manner and which is not. How can I define a fleshly dance based on what and by what interpretation? influenced by the culture of majority of Christians?… did the first disciple danced. How come where they not full of the Holly Spirit?
Do we see any instances in the new testament where the disciple danced?
Labeling something “by the Holy Spirit” does it really make it led by Him? Holy Spirit is HOLLY and the fruits results are holly and Him seek to glorify reveal Jesus and not man. If you mean to leap for joy praise the Lord then if that joy is cause by the Spirit who revealed Jesus to you and as a result of it you are full of joy then no one can stop you but when MAN is revealed then watch out.

Did David dance nude? What nakedness the scripture mean for the old time(David’s) it is “normal” for us. (Exodus 28:42 And thou shalt make them linen breeches to cover their nakedness; from the loins even unto the thighs they shall reach:) we today have forgotten to blush.


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George

 2006/4/9 19:52Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: fostering responsibility

Quote:
I believe it teaches we are responsable for our own actions..


Greg I'm glad you brought up this point for clarification.
When I used the word "scapegoat", I wasn't using it to absolve responsibility in any way.
The reason people scapegoat those who look more "obviously" like the problem, is so that they don't have to admit their own responsibility in this.

The issue here is that some young folk look like THEY are the only ones involved in their choice. But think about it. How in the world did they get the idea that they could dance on someone's furniture? If this behavior is considered acceptable from the top, than how can anyone suggest to these young folk that they might be inconsiderate in their choices.

I know that you would agree that part of the role of leadership is to foster responsibility and accountability in others.
Diane


_________________
Diane

 2006/4/9 20:21Profile









 Re:

I really didn't want to post on this thread purely because i don't want anyone to misunderstand me, But:
I don't understand what wordly dancing is as opposed to what dancing in the spirit is? In our church we have strong links to churches in Africa and when we see videos played from their services they are a noisy bunch, full of joy when praising God. They are playing the tamborine, praising in a loud voice all in one accord and dancing (on the spot) and raising their hands.
Maybe someone would be kind enough to clarify this for me?
Thank you, In His Love
Geraldine

 2006/4/10 9:42









 Re:

Are people really serious about not knowing what fleshly dancing is as opposed to spiritual dancing? Is that how worldy the church has become?

If a woman (or a man) dances in such a way as to cause men to have impure thoughts, then it's fleshly. I'm a red-blooded man, I can tell the difference.

My wife loves to dance in the spirit, and there is a difference between that and fleshly dancing.

But today... modesty is not taught in the church. Women wear revealing clothes to church, and think nothing of it. They are as guilty as the men who lust over them. Guilty of being a stumbling block.

I dont have a problem with spiritual dancing in the church, but if the dancing is causing a scene, or is sexually suggestive (which I have seen in some of the Charismatic Churches we used to attend) then it needs to be addressed. If your leadership has no backbone and will not address them, then you should look for a leadership that does and submit yourself to them instead.

Krispy

 2006/4/10 11:17
Nellie
Member



Joined: 2004/4/5
Posts: 952


 Re:

Hi Grealdine,
Worldly Dancing is Sensual.
This Young Couple were dancing not in the Spirit, but in the flesh.
I'm not against dancing in the Spirit of the Lord, and I have seen Women and Men dance in the Spirit, Seperately, and I felt the Joy of the Lord, but in the Church, Sensual Dancing should not be allowed.
What's Flesh is flesh, and what's Spirit is Spirit.
May God have someone talk to this Young Couple , so that they will understand.
Someone in Leadership, and I feel like the Pastor should be the one to do it.
God Bless you.
Nellie

 2006/4/10 12:19Profile





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