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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Does god know the future?

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 Re:

hi all,i guess running along side this question is if he knows the future why pray? there's vairous scripture that could imply that God does change is mind by are actions or prayers Jermiah being one 26:13
Therefore now amend your ways and your doings, and obey the voice of the LORD your God; and the LORD will repent him of the evil that he hath pronounced against you.

i seem to remember there is also a scripture that says God tells someone not to pray stoppp praying 'cause God would have to answer (ive forgotten the verse,anyone??)..
so does God know that he would change is mind b4 he did..
if the future is know to God and his mind cant be changed,then why do we pray..
aj

 2006/4/5 14:12









 Re:

ps the idea that God does change is mind/or the future is not set in stone,seems to me the way round predestination..aj

 2006/4/5 14:13









 Time and God can not be seperated

dorcas, you said

"Might your wires be slightly crossed?"

Who knows? If so, was I created this way or did I use my free will?

Did God create his own power? Can he change the fact that He has it?

Was there a time before time? When did God start?

You can not seperate His power from Him anymore than you can seperate time from Him.

Once God thinks a certain thought He cannot somehow go back in succession. He can create something and then destroy it, but it did exist for some interval or duration. He can not travel back in time before he created it. No matter what God did He could never undo any of His actions or thoughts as though they never existed. God cannot think a thought and then unthink it. God can think a different thought and change His mind, but He can never go back in time or the series of events. God is very personal and active. He has made many choices and will continue to make many more.

God has a free will. His thoughts are really his own creation. God is part of an endless and continuous sequence of thoughts, ideas and actions. Once God thinks a thought it becomes forever embedded in the essence of time.

 2006/4/5 14:21
MSeaman
Member



Joined: 2005/4/19
Posts: 772
Michigan

 Re: Does god know the future?

Hi Ryan, I was wondering what your thoughts are on this subject?

I believe that God knows the future. He knew before He created the earth that man would fall and need a Saviour. It's not like he stuck them in the garden, they disobeyed and he said Oops Plan B, better make a redemption plan. I will give some scripture to back up my belief shortly.

Take care.


_________________
Melissa

 2006/4/5 17:02Profile
ryanelijah
Member



Joined: 2006/1/30
Posts: 23


 Re:

Hi MSeaman. I would love to see some scripture that god knew man would rebel against him. That sounds schitzophrenic to me. No offense to you or god but why would he create us if he knew we would rebel against him. That makes no sense at all?

 2006/4/5 17:38Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3348
Texas

 Re:

Quote:

Logic wrote:
You don't need to see some scripture from both sides to answer this.

God is greater than the greatest concievable being. Of course He knows the future,



Your right on there if not were all in trouble. :-?


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Bill

 2006/4/5 18:07Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3348
Texas

 Re:

Deu 31:27 For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death?

Psa 75:5 Lift not up your horn on high: speak [not with] a stiff neck.


Jer 17:23 But they obeyed not, neither inclined their ear, but made their neck stiff, that they might not hear, nor receive instruction.


_________________
Bill

 2006/4/5 18:14Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Quote:

ryanelijah wrote:
CJaKfOrEst. I like what you said and it is a pretty good pat christian answer, though incorrect. God did not predestine us from the beginning.



Firstly, you might like to reread what I wrote, and not assume you know what side of the Calvin/Arminus debate that I sit on. The reality is "predestinated" is the word used is Eph 1. What Paul actually meant has had Christians scratching their heads since he wrote it (after all Luther and Augustine were both more "Calvinistic" than Calvin). My point in my post was that too many people spend too much time stressing about the this one word that occurs so little in scripture.

Sorry to say, but God does know the future. He knows the end from the beginning. He is surprised by nothing. Whether that makes him like a master chess player who can predict every possible outcome, or whether He actually mapped it out from the beginning I don't know, and I don't lose any sleep over it, trusting the He is bigger than silly questions like this.

Keith Daniel put it this way, "Be careful of choosing a side. When it comes to choosing a side, choose the Bible." (slight paraphrase) Fact: He chooses us before we choose Him, and we can't come to Him unless He calls us first. Fact: We are responsible for our own actions, and will be judged accordingly. Fact: If God has appointed some for salvation and some for damnation, that's none of our business, He is God after all.

Flesh that out how you will, because both a Calvinist and a Arminian could say that they agree with those statements, but the fact is, they would both more likely claim that they are wrong.

Call that a pat answer or not, but my Bible tells me the the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil" is the birthplace of all sin. I believe it was Karl Barth who stated (and seconded by Art Katz):
Quote:
The man who lives under the sign of the tree of life, [b]cannot know of himself, that which he must know, and which has therefore to be told him (to be explained and interpreted to him)[/b]. The reality of Devinely given life speaks for itself. The possibility of Devine likeness does not do so. It obviously does not commend itself. Man has to be told specifically and in fact is told that from that tree he must not eat. [b]It's not an opinion. Not an evaluation he makes[/b], he needs to be told, and to recieve the word that comes to him, from God, as being the statement of the Lord. This is the relationship that God has wanted to establish, from the first in the garden, that man is not to make his own independent assessments or determinations by the operation of his own mind, which is eating of the wrong tree, but that [b]he recognises that there are things that he can not know[/b].


The reality is, most "pat answers" are an admission to the fact God has given no comprehensive answer to the question. The question that really should be asked is why we need to fill in gaps, that God has left open, with human logic that God refers to as "A way that seemeth right unto man..." (need I finish the verse)?

In Him.


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Aaron Ireland

 2006/4/6 9:27Profile









 Re: Time and God can not be seperated


Dear freecd,

I regret ever putting "Might your wires be slightly crossed?" in my first post. It was way too clever by far and completely unnecessary. Please accept my wholehearted apology?

The other points which you raised in both your posts, I will address in my next post.

 2006/4/6 10:06
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro Ryanelijah
it seems to me (after an ivestigation into this matter on the thread 'Predestination and Free will" in this section) that we have a warped view of what it is to have free will. our perception of it is rooted heavily in the liberty which we hold so dear as americans and when we hold this up to the light of God, we see it's not as it appears. We can't do anything outside of what the Lord allows. God is SOVEREIGN in ALL things. nothing happens outside His will. so what we perceive to be free will is bound by His own, nothing happens outside of it.

have you read Romans chapter 9? if the Lord leads read it and meditate on it. the bottom line of that is there are those which are vessels of mercy (and i am one) and those who are vessels of wrath. the mechanics of predestination are rather unwieldy (as i quickly discovered in that thread) but C.S. Spurgeon said that predestination and free will while they seem to be mutually exclusive are 2 lines which are parallel and don't meet on this side but meet before the throne of God. The Lord showed me that predestination is a mystery which can't be comprehended on this side but if one is a vessel of mercy, then one should conduct himself as such. the truth of predestination is that the Lord is SOVEREIGN IN ALL and to understand this doctrine in it's purest form is to acknowledge that God is in total control of all things. God knew what would happen when He created everything.

EDIT TO ADD
even in our salvation we don't come to God of our own volition but rather we must be called of God. from John chapt 6:

[b]64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. 65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.[/b]

now we are God's elect, by election (since we're a democracy) we know it means to be chosen. to be God's elect is to be chosen by God. i love God's sovereignty!!!if left to my own devices i'd be in hell. Thank God He had a different plan!

we lose our way in this whole thing because:
1) we are not used to hearing anyone speak about God's All-sovereignty so we think we operate independently of Him which we don't.
2)we have a mind designed to grasp finite things yet God HImself is infinite and so we can't get a grip on Him that way, which is why we are to worship in Spirit and in Truth for God is Spirit and we must meet Him on that plane.

Quote:
Still, we have the ability to make our own decisions and that keeps god from knowing what will happen tomorrow or the day after. All of the scripture I have seen on this thread points to prophecy and thats it. God doesn't see prophecy in the future, he declares it will happen and brings it to pass. You guys need to provide a little more concrete evidence than propecy to show that god knows what is going to happen tomorrow.



now tell me do you know what will happen tomorrow? probably not i imagine. i don't think anyone does unless God Himself reveals it or some demon does (there have been some people in scripture who see the future because of demons) at any rate God does (so does satan to some degree)

let me be frank, i feel burdened of the Lord to tell you this. if the God you worship isn't sovereign in all, he is no God at all and is an idol of your own fashioning which needs to be cast away and this idolatry repented from because it is an abomination before the Most High God.

REPENT BRO, REPENT, REPENT, REPENT OR DIE!!!


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Farai Bamu

 2006/4/6 11:56Profile





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