SermonIndex Audio Sermons
SermonIndex - Promoting Revival to this Generation
Give To SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : General Topics : Did Jesus go to Hell when he died?

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 Next Page )
PosterThread
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4779


 Re:

Hello...

The idea that Jesus "went to Hell" following his death on the cross is found in alot of the coptic "gospels" from between the second and sixth centuries A.D. Interestingly, many of these same New Testament apocryphal books also contain alot of heavily unscriptural doctines that were particular to the Roman Church (such as the concept of an "Immaculate Conception"). However, these pseudo-Scriptures were dismissed by many of the patriarchs of the early Church.

I have not seen any evidence in the Word of God that would make me accept such a doctrine as any sort of evident truth. In fact, I believe that the victory that Christ gained was through his death on the cross -- and not through the popular modern idea that Jesus needed to go to Hell in order "[i]to take the keys from Satan[/i]."

I am also very hesitant to believe many of the popular concepts of "paradise" and "Abraham's bosom" as pseudo-purgatories. Those concepts just sound so...unBiblical.

:-)


_________________
Christopher

 2006/3/31 22:16Profile
Greenquality
Member



Joined: 2006/1/26
Posts: 189
mountains of Pa.

 Re:

He also preached to the spirites in prison,those who are held captive, where is the prison for spirites?.So this is to me a Diven - mystery!To say yes or no, how can are answers be in black or white.remember we are still looking thur the smokey Glass of The diven nature of God who is everywhere! how are sins forgiven? we can explain what we know from the bible ,or the act of.,but truly this is a matter of faith,in the Diven mysterey of sins being forgiven,which is unseen, or invisble. How can we explain some of the things which happen in the natural world,which are unexplainable.

 2006/4/1 17:47Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4779


 Re:

Hi Greenquality...

I agree. To state such things are "doctrinal" is very misleading (and probably unwise). At most, such belief is [u][b]speculation[/b][/u]. Thus, all such ideas like this should be stated as [b]speculation[/b], rather than fact.

:-)


_________________
Christopher

 2006/4/1 18:28Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro Karl, Bro Karl, Bro Karl!!!

Quote:
This is true for the carnally minded, but for the Spiritually minded, we will eventually know all things as we give ourselves over to the Word and Prayer.



amen bro, amen the Lord rewards those who dilligently seek Him. check this out

Jeremiah 33:3

[b]Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not. [/b]

now we can sit on our butts if we like (to our detriment ultimately) or we can seek the Lord in all dilligence.

bro the Lord had you break down what happened to Christ after the crucifiction, man whoa!!! i asked who knows these things in my last post and i'm sure glad someone did!!!

bro Billpro
i'm unsure what to make of yyour last post about hardcore Christians finding answers to things which have no answer (you said)so i'd like some clarity. should we not be hard core in our walk of Faith?


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/4/1 20:17Profile
letsgetbusy
Member



Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia

 Re:

Brethren,

I posted on this topic a while back after I heard Kent Hovind's interpretation:

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=8860&forum=36&4

Hovind said that Christ moved in three capacities after He gave up the ghost.

----------

1) His spirit went to heaven:

Psalm 31:5 "Into thine hand I commit my spirit: thou hast redeemed me, O LORD God of truth."

Luke 23:46 "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."

----------

2) His body went to the tomb

Acts 13:29 "And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre."

----------

3) and His soul went to hell:

Psalm 16:10 "For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption."

Psalm 139:8b "if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there."

----------

I was shocked by this view, along with the idea that Christ led the captives to heaven after the atonement, that were waiting in Abraham's bosom. Hovind also went over the difference between hell and the lake of fire.

Hell is like jail, where the lake of fire is like prison. Hell holds the damned until they are judged and cast into the lake of fire:

Rev 20:

[14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The more I go over Hovind's view, the more I buy into it.


_________________
Hal Bachman

 2006/4/1 20:59Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4779


 Re:

Hi letsgetbusy...

Quote:
Psalm 16:10 "For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption."

Psalm 139:8b "if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there."

I may open myself up to some strong criticism for writing this, but these verses are some of those places where the KJV may have been incorrect in the wording of its translation. The idea that [i]Jesus went to Hell[/i] was well-regarded in early Roman Catholic tradition (thus appearing in the corrupt coptic and NT apocryphal "gospels") even though it was rejected by many early Church leaders during the same time period.

The Hebrew word used in those verses is [i]sheol[/i]. This word can be translated as the [i]grave[/i] (or [i]death[/i], [i]darkness[/i], or [i]great depth[/i]) -- since it obviously used as such in verses like Genesis 37:33-35; Genesis 42:37-38; I Samuel 2:6; II Samuel 22:5-6; I Kings 2:6-9; etc... Often, this is part of the confusion about whether or not Hell is in the "center of the earth." It is commonly realized now that Hell is obviously [u]not[/u] in the "center of the Earth" (remember, you can see PARADISE from Hell - Luke 16:23).

The NIV translates the aforementioned word as [i]grave[/i] as do many of the other translations. Interestingly, other translations taken from the Textus Receptus (such as the older-than-the-KJV [i]Reina-Valera Antiqua[/i] in Spanish) often translate the same word as "sepultura" (literally, the [i]grave[/i]).

On a side note, I find Kent Hovind's interpretation of this concept quite interesting (Hell being like jail and the Lake of Fire being like prison). However, the idea of Old Testament believers going to Hell seems (and were supposedly brought to Heaven by Jesus when he "led captivity captive" and "released the captives") seems a little too much like the Catholic concept of [i][u]purgatory[/u][/i].

Did Jesus go to Hell? There is definitely arguments both [i]pro[/i] and [i]con[/i]. However, an even more important question is whether or not such [b]speculation[/b] should enter into [u]doctrine[/u] -- or even whether it should be taught definitively. Remember, there are alot of doctrinal divisions in the Body of Christ as a result of individuals taking stands on issues like this which, with speculation, enters into defining doctrine. Even on this website, there are "hard core" believers that take stands on issues that serve to seperate us. There are arguments among many sincere believers about the end time prophecy, spiritual gifts, Bible versions, Biblical dress codes, music, etc... One "hard core" believer is convinced that "God told him/her the truth" about such doctrine -- which puts that believer at odds with another believer who feels that "God told him/her" the opposite.

I believe that we should search out these matters. But we should also be careful about taking a "stand" on such ideas prematurely -- or whether we should even "take a definitive stand" on such issues to begin with. We should be very careful about what doctrines to consider as [u]absolute truth[/u] when such doctrine is still highly debated. There are controversial concepts that we can know for certain -- but I don't know that this is one of them.

:-)


_________________
Christopher

 2006/4/1 21:54Profile
Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

the Lord Jesus deceneded into hades according to Acts. And on the cross the Lord said to the other thief, "This day you shall be with me in paradise".

Our problem is that the King James version doesn not make distincions beteen hades, Gehenna, Tartarus, etc. It translates all these words into one english word, "Hell".

But in the Greek, the New Testament word for the "abode of the dead" is Hades, not hell. And in the bible Hades consist of two sections, the bosom of Abraham which is the place of the spirits of the just, and torments which is the place of the spirits of the unjustified.

The Lord Jesus deceneded into hades, the abode of the dead and He emerged with the keys of death and hades.

Gehenah, the Lake of fire is reserved for the Devil and his angels and those who are his in the last day.

Graftedbranch

 2006/4/1 22:02Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3422
Texas

 Re:

Basically I guess I could care less were he went and all that won't get me saved if I were not already, and I don't think he wants us spending much time on the past my guess he would want us to look forward Faith moves forward Like Paul, our focus is to be on what “lies ahead,” not looking back but looking forward to the “upward call of God in Christ Jesus” (Phi. 3:12-14). as long as I know were he is now, and that would be at the right hand of the Father so I am good to go with that. :-)


_________________
Bill

 2006/4/1 22:24Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro Chris
Christ went down to hell/hades to free those who were there who died before He came. Hell was the holding place of the righteous (Abraham's bosom), the damned and there was also a mountain in which the angels who had children with women (nephilim) were held. it was a temporary holding place which itself will the thrown into the lake of fire:

revelation 20:14
[b]14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. [/b]

now evidently this holding place will be used again in some measure in the future (see Rev 6)before being cast into the fire which is hell proper which burns forever and ever.

[b]8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them F5 over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. [/b]

Christ says He has the keys of Hell in revelation 1
[b]17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.[/b]

i don't know that the enemy had the keys to hell at any point but that part of hell in which the rich man went in luke chapt 16 was not a nice place to be and those souls there were in trouble big time. Perhaps this is where the concept of purgatory comes from the fact that there is this temporary holding place before going to heaven or hell (when one is here his fate is sealed it seems)so it is not like purgatory where one waits till someone prays you out.

there is no mention of abraham's bosom in the rest of the word...it's there in the book of enoch though, and the secrets thereof which happen to be canon scripture in the Ethiopian orthodox church yet not in the western church...mmm...perhaps we westerners may be missing something?


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/4/1 23:21Profile
letsgetbusy
Member



Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia

 Re:

From the KJV:

The Hebrew

1) "Sheol" is tranlated into: hell, the grave, and the pit in the Old Testament.

The Greek

2) Geenna (or gehenna) is always translated "hell" in the NT.

My take: Matthew and Luke used both "gehenna" and "hades." Mark only "gehenna." The Matthew 11 / Luke 10 reference of Capernaum has them falling from exaltation in heaven then down to "hades." It seems that "gehenna" is the very place of burning and flames, while "hades" includes the gates, and the speaking of the overall geographic area, as is the case with how Lazarus saw the man below.

Like you wouldn't say, "Hades fire," but rather, "gehenna fire." And you wouldn't say that one, "refused heaven and ended up in gehenna," but rather he, "refused heaven and ended up in hades."

3a) Hades is translated into "grave" in Corinthians. Paul wrote "O death (thanatos), where is thy sting? O grave (hades), where is thy victory?"

This is a reference to Hosea 13, and in perfect line with Revelation (see below). This usage is obviously not speaking of the pit of the damned, because hell doesn't swallow the redeemed, and then they later receive victory over it. We, as Christians, either don't feel the sting of death, or we receive victory over bodily death. The first part is translated saints, the latter is resurrection saints. I am positive the KJV translators took all this into account. Remember they were considered head and shoulders above their peers.

3b) Hades is translated into "hell" in every case in the NT except for Paul's use in 1 Cor 15. So if one is to say that the word was translated wrong in 1 Cor, they are really saying that Paul either wrote "hades" when he should have written "Mnemeion" (grave), or that the correct word was lost in copying manuscripts.

Paul said the word "hades" while describing the grave that a corpse lies in. If Paul had used the word "gehenna" in the latter part of 1 Cor 15, he would have been saying that God redeems us from hell, not the grave. Hosea says we are ransomed from Sheol. A ransom is a return. So if Paul said we are returned from hell, he would be making doctrinal error. Paul was right, and so were the KJV translators.

Hades is translated into "hell" four times in Revelation, but always with "hell and death" or "death and hell." Death (thanatos) is riding a horse in this reference, and hell (hades) is following him. Seems that both are persons. Makes perfect sense why Paul would say, ""O death (thanatos), where is thy sting? O grave (hades), where is thy victory?" This is enough to keep anyone from forming too solid of an understanding. Death and hell are persons and places. One follows the other, and they are judged simultaneously with the damned.

3c) Tartaroo (or tartarus) is translated "hell" in 2 Peter. This is considered the lowest depth of hell. So tartaroo is always translated "hell." If we had a common word in English for the lowest part of hell, my guess is they would have used it.


_________________
Hal Bachman

 2006/4/2 0:40Profile





©2002-2024 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Revival to this Generation.
Privacy Policy