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Rahman
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Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: WHAT IS THE LESSON OF LUKE 16: 1-13? ...

Canuck you wrote;
"I wonder if sometimes we overanalyze Christ's parables, looking for allegorical meaning in every detail when Christ didn't intend them that way."

Interesting point, whereas i on the other hand wonder if we can ever over analyze anything that Christ said in light of the scriptural admonition to meditate on the Word of God day and night - Somehow i don't think over anylization of the Word is the problem of most modern (American) saints, unless it's to somehow work it toward ones own benefit - as in "health & wealth" (but i understand what you mean) ... Then also in my case on this parable i'd have a ways to go in over-analyzation since i've not quite gotten a grasp on it yet ...

But [b]last night i researched it an old (1929) Abingdon Bible Commentary i have and it says a lot close to what you've posted[/b] ... Praise God for this fellowship in which i can learn from others (thank You Jesus) ...

[b]I'll post what the Commentary says as soon as i can have the text broken down[/b] ... Thanks again!

Blessings in Christ Jesus ... :-D

 2006/3/29 9:22Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
i totally understand where you're coming from about freely giving as that's something i do also, especially to the street poor and homeless which just tears me up to see, but when it comes to what i've come to call "unctioned giving" i don't do it unless i hear from Holy Spirit, and i only do it explicitly in the instruction that i hear ... No more ... No less ...



I also agree with God giving us [i]specific[/i] amounts to give to [i]specific[/i] needs. I hope not to come off as though I don't listen to God, as that is not what I am saying at all. I also don't want to come off as though I hear God like a prophet or something. However, I have even seen God move in circumstances as regards to obedience with money. I don't see a formula in it, as there is no ryme or reason to how God works; its whatever he says to do. Many things are foolishness to our minds, but it brings to nothing the wisdom of the wise that none will glory in His presence. But as regards the general 'good steward' principals I think we need to have a cheerful giving heart, as God loves a cheerful giver. Thats two things. Its a 'giver' but its a giver that gives 'cheerfully' and not grudgingly.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2006/3/29 9:23Profile
IRONMAN
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Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro Robert

Quote:
Yes. This is another critical aspect of giving. I believe it takes to the Holy Spirit at work in a believer for them to give with absolutely no strings attached. The parable is interesting because it seems to lend to the attitude of the recipient being one of gratitude resulting in some sort of 'friendship', but it don't work the other way. In other words, it is totally up to the receiver to respond rightly to the gift. The giver is not allotted the priveledge of pressing the matter. The world 'gives' and expects something in return. This does not mean we can't hope for something in return (in terms of them being turned to Christ, etc.), but at the moment we press the issue with them and remind them of the gift, the whole effect is lost.



thanks bro that was most insightful. it is by the Spirit of God that we conduct ourselves and give in a no strings attached manner. without that we are just like the heathen.


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Farai Bamu

 2006/3/29 9:52Profile
Warrior4Jah
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Joined: 2005/7/5
Posts: 382
The Netherlands

 Re:

[b][8] And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.[/b]

Its actually weird that people of the world are actually investing there money better in the things they think are important then we do in the Kingdom of God... they work better together in spending and reaching their goals then we do. (replace we with I actually)

As for my life, as soon I get money I want to buy things. A new keyboard, a new mountainbike..
But recently I've read a book about world missions from Yokhannen and I know thats more important.
Making friends with the Mammon of unrighteousness.... I should use money to invest it in things that have eternal value which a keyboard and a mountainbike have not.

Its not wrong for me to buy these things, but what do I give God and what do I give myself?
Thanks to whoever made the list of what minstry leaders earned! Made me get Yokhannens book. :-)


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Jonathan Veldhuis

 2006/3/29 9:52Profile
IRONMAN
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Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
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 Re:

bro Warrior

Quote:
Its actually weird that people of the world are actually investing there money better in the things they think are important then we do in the Kingdom of God... they work better together in spending and reaching their goals then we do. (replace we with I actually)



i think you're onto something here, by God i think we're onto something here!


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Farai Bamu

 2006/3/29 9:56Profile
IRONMAN
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Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 wise investing

brethren

bro Warrior said and it jumped at me and smacked me in the face:

Quote:
Its actually weird that people of the world are actually investing there money better in the things they think are important then we do in the Kingdom of God... they work better together in spending and reaching their goals then we do. (replace we with I actually)



isn't it amazing the amount of materal we read through, listen to or in some other way investigate to see if a stock is worth us putting money into it? we listen to all manner of pundit, expert and guru to see if we should invest. we are exceedingly meticulous as it pertains to things of this world and yet not anywhere near as meticulous as it pertains to the things of God. it [i][b]is[/b][/i] weird that people in the world go to such trouble and indeed reap some reward for their efforts in terms of getting wealthy and yet we have yet to attain all the riches in God we're supposed to have. we don't search the word enough, nor search God enough and the thing is we [i][b]know and have[/b][/i] the true wealth which is Christ.

my brother-in-law James said to me that those who worship the enemy or other demons do so with such verve that they are able to perfom all manner of false miracles and supernatual things yet we for the most part are inept in that area.

we've got to become more dilligent in terms of investing in the Kingdom. this is what the Lord just dropped on me to share here.


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Farai Bamu

 2006/3/29 12:31Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
My quote: The world 'gives' and expects something in return. This does not mean we can't hope for something in return (in terms of them being turned to Christ, etc.), but at the moment we press the issue with them and remind them of the gift, the whole effect is lost.



I need to qualify something here in that at 'times' it may be necessary to remind someone who has cast off the goodness of God by dismissing what God has done for them. Out of sight and out of mind as the saying goes. Sometimes it might be necessary to bring something up, but by and large I think the above quote is true.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2006/3/29 13:44Profile
Rahman
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Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: WHAT IS THE LESSON OF LUKE 16: 1-13? ...

Bro. Robert you wrote;
"I also agree with God giving us specific amounts to give to specific needs. I hope not to come off as though I don't listen to God, as that is not what I am saying at all. I also don't want to come off as though I hear God like a prophet or something."


No brother you don't come off as someone who doesn't listen to God, for if you did i don't think you'd be His pastor since in order to be so you had to hear and answer His "calling" ... And as for the latter, for me, i hear God like i hear Him, and when i talk to most folk about what i hear, and in the same intensity in which i hear it ... Well you know ... :-P

You continued;
"However, I have even seen God move in circumstances as regards to obedience with money. I don't see a formula in it, as there is no ryme or reason to how God works;"


Amen ... i agree that we don't often see the formula in His "moves", particularly when His "move" is via us, but i disagree that "there is no ryme or reason" in how the ultimate Mathematician works ... He has the - no He is the formula, and bless Him that He not only saved us to the purpose of His formula thru Jesus, but even then also sent His Spirit to strive with us to get us in line with His formula ... The way i see it, thru Christ, we His Church are a much needed and integral part toward the positive outcome of His formula, and things sure go more smoothly when we toe the line ... But can we honestly say that we, particularly as American saints, are toeing God's line? ... And even more specifically in matters of financial stewardship individually, and so importantly as His Church ... If all wealth is His, and we are stewards of the particular part of His wealth He's allotted us, if He were to call us out right now to an accounting of our books individually, as church congregations, and as His segment of His Body here in America, do you think our books would pass His Almighty audit, or do you think most of us would be fired?

See bro. Robert i'm a weird sort ... My life verse is Jer. 33:3, so when i call out to our Lord i expect Him to answer me since He is not a man that can lie, and i expect to hear from Him ... To bring it on up to NT venacular when He say's that He's a rewarder of those that diligently seek Him, i expect to be rewarded in my knowledge of Him in that seeking ... In my foolish logic this is how this thread has come upon SI ... i figured that if i was in prayer about His Body, and Holy Spirit drops Luke 16 in my spirit, He's answering me, and the beauty of it all is that in His answer He didn't explain it to me from Himself but prompted me to bring it to SI where not only would He eventually explain it to me, but would open up that door to all Holy Spirit will draw to participate, and think about this parable ... to me it's like where the Apostle Paul said that we all see thru a glass darkly ... Well many may find complacent contentment in that passage to live this life with Stevie Wonder/Ray Charles shades on, and tho i know on this side of heaven i'll never have clear lenses to the deeper mysteries of God, by His Spirit i'm gonna try my best to get my shades to the tint of photo grays ... Now the Word also says that to whom much is given (which i think has a lot to do with the degree of seeking) much is required ... So that places
seeking folk in an almost catch 22 situation in that if He blesses such efforts of those who want lighter shades in order to see Him more clearly, and we don't tell others content in wearing blind man glasses He'll hold it against us ... At this point in my life the last thing i want to hear Jesus say to me is "but i have something against thee".


You finished;
"But as regards the general 'good steward' principals I think we need to have a cheerful giving heart, as God loves a cheerful giver. Thats two things. Its a 'giver' but its a giver that gives 'cheerfully' and not grudgingly."


Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-men! ... This was a hard enough lesson for me to learn in "giving" materialy, but it got so much easier as it really began to dawn on me that all that i have is not mine, but His, and the joy that comes from seeing the look on someones face (if it's not given anonymously) when as a "cheerful steward" He uses you to minister to someone else His supplying of their "need" ... But the real joy is the spiritual sense of well being one hears in one's spirit, His saying, "Well done" ... Now my harder lesson is becoming a like obedient steward when it comes to my time to others ...

Blessings pastor!

Bro. R

 2006/3/29 14:12Profile
Warrior4Jah
Member



Joined: 2005/7/5
Posts: 382
The Netherlands

 Re: wise investing

Yes we have, I certainly do. And this is not only about money, however I am not supporting anyone at the moment in the kingdom of God with money which I could if I make some small offers and put back my desires.

I've asked God who I could support as I am not blindely giving my money to someone or some organization.

Now the Lord has shown me Yokhannen's ministry which gives me an opportunity to support someone.
It's a well made investment in the kingdom of God as Yokhannen puts 100% of the funds he receives into local missionaries!

Quote:
Bro IRONMAN wrote:
we've got to become more dilligent in terms of investing in the Kingdom. this is what the Lord just dropped on me to share here.


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Jonathan Veldhuis

 2006/3/29 14:18Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: WHAT IS THE LESSON OF LUKE 16: 1-13? ...

Warrior4Jah you wrote;
"As for my life, as soon I get money I want to buy things. A new keyboard, a new mountainbike..
But recently I've read a book about world missions from Yokhannen and I know thats more important.
Making friends with the Mammon of unrighteousness.... I should use money to invest it in things that have eternal value which a keyboard and a mountainbike have not.

Its not wrong for me to buy these things, but what do I give God and what do I give myself?"


Aaaaaaaaaaa-men ... we all do ... that's our (self) first reaction ... what can i get to gratify myself ... Now i don't know how things are over there in The Netherlands, but here in America we don't wait till we get money, we stretch ourselves way out into massive debt to get what we want "NOW" at the expense of leverging out our future earning with the extra added millstones of robber baron interest compounded daily!

i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say (my personal opinion and why i check myself now) "Yes it is wrong to be buying ourselves ridiculous things that we don't need at the expense of our giving to God and His work - particularly when it comes to "missions" and "alms" ... Now is this such a wrong that it would affect our salvation, i personally don't believe so ... But is it a wrong that will affect my effectiveness in and to the work of Christ? ... To that i think Yep! ... The reason i think our Lord laid this scripture on my heart is that we as individual saints, which make up His Church, are not "wise stewards" but "unjust stewards", and how would we fare if He called an accounting of us? ... Would we come out like the steward with 5 or 10 talents, or like the one with one?

About a year ago i heard a rather well dressed sister in church complaining to another well dressed saint about not having any money, while her little boy was sitting there playing a $200.00 Play Station ... Our Lord gave me a similar awakening many years back when i too was complaining about not having any money, and He began to point out to me all the reasons (un-necessary purchases) why ...

Blessings in Jesus!

 2006/3/29 14:18Profile





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