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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Pre-Tribulation Rapture

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 Re:

Quote:
However, the 'tribulation' you say will happen to Christians during this period is acutally coming from the antichrist and his followers...not God.



This is referring to people who are saved during the Tribulation.

Quote:
Quick question: Would God ever allow wicked man to hurt a Christian?



Foxe's Book of Martyrs.

So far no one has brough forth any scripture about any of this other than me... just a lot of conjecture and opinions about stuff. Unless we're gonna discuss what the scripture says, then I think I'll leave y'all to your opinions.

Krispy

 2006/3/28 15:24
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

My eyes were opened to the posttribulation rapture by 2 Thess. 2.

Read this chapter and see that Paul shows the coming of Jesus and our gathering togther to him take place at the same time. This he refers to as the 'day of the Lord' (or Christ).

Paul then says that this day will not come until the apostasy and the antichrist (during the tribulation).

Also, Jesus spoke of 1 return: Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21.
You might say that he is just referring to the Jews...if so why is he telling HIS disciples who would start HIS church?

If Jesus spoke of only 1 return and Paul speaks of only 1 return...why do we believe in 2?

 2006/3/28 15:28Profile









 Re:

Quote:
So, what makes us Christians in this present age of grace immune to tribulation and why aren't the 'tribulation saints' as fortunate?



I'll answer this before I leave this discussion...

We are not immune from tribulation. But the tribulation that is coming at the end is not just ordinary "troubles" we all have day to day. It's not even the triblulation of those living behind the Iron Curtain of the Cold War. It is a time of God's wrath. Your comparing apples to oranges.

Secondly, the "Tribulation Saints" are those who come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ after the rapture. They are stuck in the Tribulation because they refused Christ before the Rapture. Even tho God forgives us we still suffer the consequences of our sin. Just read about King David.

Thats it for me...

Krispy

 2006/3/28 15:31
taco
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 211


 Re:

Quote:
So far no one has brough forth any scripture about any of this other than me... just a lot of conjecture and opinions about stuff. Unless we're gonna discuss what the scripture says, then I think I'll leave y'all to your opinions.



You mentioned one verse that seems to you (your conjecture) to mean that God won't pour out his wrath on this earth when his followers are there. Others have pointed out counter examples and now you bail out?

Stick with it please explain why you beieve believers wont be here for the tribulation. You sound solidly convinced. Out with it :-D

 2006/3/28 15:32Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

However, the 'tribulation' you say will happen to Christians during this period is acutally coming from the antichrist and his followers...not God.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Quote:
This is referring to people who are saved during the Tribulation.



Are people saved during the tribulation considered Christians?

Also, I am glad we agree that Christians can be persecuted by non-Christians...so is it impossible to believe that Christians can be persecuted during the tribulation?

 2006/3/28 15:33Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

Krispy,

Let us both pray about this topic. I know where you are at...I was there not long ago.

I want more than anything to believe that Jesus will come and take me out of this world before the tribulation. The problem is, I can't find that in scripture.

1 Thess. 4 talks about Jesus coming to get the dead saints and the alive saints. We will meet him in the air and be with him forever.

2 Thess. 2 deals with the error that the day of the lord has already come. Paul refers to this day as, "the coming of our Lord and our gathering togther to him". He says not to worry about missing this day because this day will not happen until the antichrist is revealed and the apostasy (falling away) occurs.

Interesting that in 1 Thess 4 Paul refers to 'according to the Lord's own words'. When did Jesus refer to his coming? Matt. 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21. When did he say it would happen? Immediately after the tribulation.

But don't take my word for it. Study the scriptures and ask God to reveal the answer. Don't come in trying to prove your position, but read and ask God to reveal the truth of the matter.

God Bless.

 2006/3/28 15:41Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Stick with it please explain why you beieve believers wont be here for the tribulation. You sound solidly convinced. Out with it



I'll consider jumping back in... maybe tomorrow. I felt that everyone was heading toward an opinion debate w/out scripture as a base, and I am beginning to have a real distaste for that. On top of that, I could feel a real argumenative spirit rising up in me (called flesh) and when that happens I know it's time to take a break. Could just be my mood today. Someone stopped by the house last night who needed some counseling and didnt leave until 1 am, and then my two yr old son got in bed with us sometime during the night and proceeded to kick my wife and I for about 2 hours before I finally threw him into his own bed.

So... probably not in the best mood today.

I'll take a look at the thread later on, and if I feel there is something I can add to it, I'll consider jumping back in.

Krispy

 2006/3/28 15:54
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

It is interesting that noone has produced scripture only to support the pre-trib theory. I know that for myself, I was pre for many years until I too read 2 Thessalonians 2.
Please don't get me wrong, I do not really care whether some one is pre or post, but I think that this could really be part of the falling away that is mentioned as people are not snatched up, they begin to question scripture, their salvation, their pastors etc.. It seems that this would be a wonderful ploy of Satan to trick folks.
As for examples in scripture og God protecting His people while dealing with the world around them, look at Noah, and his family. Not saved from the wrath but through it. Look at when God wiped out the cattle etc of the Egyptians in Exodus, yet nothing happened to Israel.
Either way, there are far more improtant things to put our hands to. :-)


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2006/3/28 16:00Profile
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, i base my belief on daniel. the hebrew children were told to bow down and worship the image and said our God is able to deliver(rapture)us from thee o king but if not we will not bow down. this inraged the king so he heated the furnace up 7 times hotter so that his people suffered(wrath). how many did we put in the furnace?3 but there are 4 and the fourth is like THE SON OF GOD. DELIVERENCE..through the tribulation not from it... although i walk through th valley of the shadow of death... the position of this story in the scriptures is also vwry interesting to me... then daniel was thrown into the lions den...delivered through tribulation and wrath repeated. Jesus prayed to be delivered fom the bitter cup but had to indure the wrath ,caused by my sin, for the joy set before Him.i don't know how or what cause i cannot do anything to change or influence what God is going to do;so i am going to live for Jesus today.jimp

 2006/3/28 16:09Profile
lastblast
Member



Joined: 2004/10/16
Posts: 528
Michigan

 Re:

Quote:
Up until a couple months ago I held a neuteral position on this, but I am now firmly pre-trib.



I just about spit my drink out when I read this Krispy........YOU were neutral until a few months ago.......I thought you were firmly pre-trib (just didn't debate that particular topic) many years ago while on RR? :-P Blessings in Him, Cindy


_________________
Cindy

 2006/3/28 16:45Profile





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