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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Pre-Tribulation Rapture

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Joined: 2006/8/10
Posts: 551


The preterist movement essentially teaches that all the end-times prophecies of the New Testament were fulfilled in A.D. 70 when the Romans attacked and destroyed Jerusalem and Israel.

 2012/2/13 13:01Profile

 The Great multitude came out. They had, therefore, to go in at some time.

I highly recommend Zac Poonen's REVELATION series here on SI. It is verse by verse expository, and quite brilliant. He brought this to my attention concerning the Great Multitude before the Throne that "No man could number."

"And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, "What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? "

"And I said unto him, "Sir, thou knowest". And he said to me, ............................

"These are they which came out of Great Tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

Poonen says; "They went in; They came out."

The point is, that they surely were not raptured before they went's an impossibility. They went in it, and came out of it.

 2012/2/13 13:16

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708

 Re: The Great multitude came out. They had, therefore, to go in at some time.

The Body of Christ, His Church, does not need to have their robes cleansed by the Blood of the Lamb. He has already presented to Himself His Bride, and the Marriage supper of the Lamb has already taken place. I am already crucified with Christ, Gal 2:20, The life I now live I live by the faith of the Son of God, it is no longer I who live but Christ who liveth in me. He does not need to have His robe which is my robe, cleansed by His own blood and His life being born again of incorruptable Seed of the Father which is the living Word of God, who does not need to recleanse me by His own blood and a white robe, which I am partaker of by His resurrected Life and Spirit in me, which we are all partakers of already.

Run from the rapture all you want, but when it comes you won't be able to get away. We are His, bought and paid for in total by the greatest price ever paid, God's only begotten Son, crucified for those that would believe and become the sons' of God by the Blood of Jesus Christ and His resurrected life which we now live.

Gaebelein's Annoted Bible;
How much confusion would have been avoided if expositors and Christians in searching for the meaning of this vision, had not lost sight of two great facts: 1. This chapter can have no application to the Church on earth, nor to the Church in glory, for the simple reason that the Church is already complete and translated to glory. 2. The vision states clearly that the sealed company is "of all the tribes of the children of Israel."

The sealed company is of Israel. After the Church is removed to glory, when the fulness of the Gentiles is come in (Ro 11:26) the Lord will turn in mercy to Israel and call, before the judgments fall, a remnant which will also be sealed (See Eze 9). This remnant is frequently seen on the pages of Old Testament prophecy. This sealed company also bears a great testimony. They are the preachers of the gospel of the kingdom, as a witness to all nations before the end comes (Mt 24:14). Therefore, during the time when the judgments are executed from above there will be a world-wide preaching of the gospel of the kingdom, proclaiming the coming of the King, calling to repentance and faith in His Name, and offering mercy still.

Verses 9-17. The application of this passage of Scripture to the redeemed Church in glory is wrong. This Scripture does not apply to the Church in glory, but to saved Gentiles on earth. It is a company which comes "out of the great tribulation." The Church enters the glory before that great tribulation begins. The great multitude represents those Gentiles who will hear the final testimony and believe. They will have turned in repentance to Him and will be washed in His precious blood. Our Lord speaks of them in the great judgment of the nations as sheep, who stand at His right hand and inherit the kingdom (Mt 25:31, etc.). The brethren of our Lord mentioned in Matthew are the remnant of Israel. (For a complete exposition see The Gospel of Matthew, by the author of this volume.) This great company, therefore, does not stand before a heavenly throne, but before the millennial throne on earth. It is a millennial scene after the tribulation is passed. End:

In Christ who needs no white robe, for He is my righteousness, wisdom, sanctification and full redemption.

1 Corinthians 1:29-31 That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Christ in me is my glory, not comming out of the tribulation in white robes. We are already in Him, with Him in fulness of His being born again in us. He is my glory and we are His prize, perfect before the Father the Lambs Bride without spot or wrinkle, already seated in the heavenlies in Christ now and will be raptured to fulfill and complete the Fathers House exists which Jesus has prepared for us to be with Him, the Father and the Holy Spirit in us forever.

In Christ: Phillip


 2012/2/13 21:03Profile

Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


hi, i have stated many times here that i should take no thought of is why: when the beginning of end time study starts in dan. 2 why do we skip dan.3 it has abeast that must be worshipped,it has a way of posible escape, it has a threat of great tribulation, it has the meeting of Jesus in the place of tribulation and it has deliverence through the tribulation without harm. the hebrews were delivered through the fire , dan was delivered through the lions den... although i walk trough the valley of the shadow of death i will fear no evil...the jews were delivered through the waters. there is no example in the old testament of someone being delivered from anything
Jesus was delivered through the cross and the grave and death.laz was delivered through the grave.jimp

 2012/2/13 22:43Profile

Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4582

 Re: The Great multitude came out. They had, therefore, to go in at some time.

Hi Brothertom,


"And I said unto him, "Sir, thou knowest". And he said to me, ............................

"These are they which came out of Great Tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

Poonen says; "They went in; They came out."

The point is, that they surely were not raptured before they went's an impossibility. They went in it, and came out of it.

I strongly reject any teaching as an "absolute" that a "gathering" of the Bride of Christ before the Wrath of God is poured out upon this world is an "impossibility."

In this case, Brother Zac is stating that "out of" is confined to believers who went "in." The suggestion implies that all of those who came out dressed in white were believers who went in at the beginning of that period.

First of all, the Word is clear that there will be many converts during that time. Those who come "out" of the period may simply be those who find Christ in the midst of such great trial.

Next, the argument presented in a matter of rhetorical semantics. The words "came out" can convey several things -- just like the words used in Revelation 3:10 can be selectively interpreted in regard to how believers would be kept FROM the hour of temptation:

"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."
- Revelation 3:10

I do believe that there are many misperceptions in regard to the views of those who believe (or consider the possibility) of a "gathering" or "catching away" before the wrath of God is poured out.

Those of us who may lean toward such a view aren't saying that believers are immune from tribulation or persecution on this Earth. Obviously, believers have historically been recipients of immense tribulation and persecution. However, the wrath of God is an entirely different matter.

I am convinced that either the Lord will remove His Bride before that time...or that He will supernaturally PROTECT His Bride from God's wrath during that time. This will be vast divine protection, since entire portions of the Earth will be laid waste during that time.

I suppose that the long debates on this topic will probably continue until we are actually experiencing them firsthand. However, I am also convinced that those who have their faith and hope in Christ have nothing to fear -- regardless of how the end comes.

We can be prepared for ANY way the end comes. After all, we aren't even promised that we will be alive by that time. Regarding our eternal preparation, David Wilkerson used to say that we should live our lives in a way that we are ready to depart this life at any time.

In fact, we should long for that ending...because the end result is to be with a manner that is closer than we experience here on this side of that "glass darkly."


 2012/2/13 23:49Profile

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