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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Pre-Tribulation Rapture

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 Re:

JaySaved... The tribulation is God's wrath. How could it be man's wrath? Man's wrath against what? Who are we that we should take out our wrath on the world? We're nothing...

Krispy

 2006/3/28 14:34
taco
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 211


 Re:

Quote:
No they dont. Sorry, Taco, but thats bad theology.



Yea I guess you are right. john 3:36 is a bit spurious.

Sorry about that.

 2006/3/28 14:49Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

Krispy, you said

Quote:
If you read the scriptures, there is no way you can be on earth and not be effected by what happens in the tribulation... especially when it comes to buying and selling. Those who refuse the mark will be killed, those who take it will have no way of turning back. Thats plain and simple.



The buying and selling you mentioned is the antichrist and his forces wrath against those who do not accept the mark of the beast. The death from not accepting the mark is punishment the antichrist and his forces inflict...not God.

Quote:
The tribulation is God's wrath. How could it be man's wrath? Man's wrath against what? Who are we that we should take out our wrath on the world? We're nothing...



This is my point.
The tribulation is God's wrath against sinful man, those who are unbelievers. You believe that since Christians are saved and shall not feel the wrath of God this means we will not be around during the tribulation.

However, the 'tribulation' you say will happen to Christians during this period is acutally coming from the antichrist and his followers...not God.

God's wrath is not upon Christians during the tribulation, we are protected from that...however we still have to deal with the fores of evil in this world.

Quick question: Would God ever allow wicked man to hurt a Christian?

 2006/3/28 14:59Profile
taco
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 211


 Re:

Quote:
The buying and selling you mentioned is the antichrist and his forces wrath against those who do not accept the mark of the beast.



The fact that there are "those who do not accept the mark" seems to suggest that there are those who are following God at this time. Again this whould seem to knock Krispy's premise that God won't pour out his wrath on the earth at the same time as those who follow him are there. it matters little if you call them "tribulation saints". If this is the wrath of God - and these people are followers of the will of God how can Krispy's argument stand?

 2006/3/28 15:03Profile
5nva
Member



Joined: 2003/8/15
Posts: 179


 Re:

I would really like to see a good peaceful discussion on this subject. This is something that I have been questioning and would like to hear both sides of the debate.

One thing I have always thought about God's wrath though is that His wrath is not the tribulation but rather God's wrath is the final judgment of unbelievers. His wrath is eternal damnation is what I have always thought.

Is that not true?

Mike


_________________
Mike

 2006/3/28 15:10Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Yea I guess you are right. john 3:36 is a bit spurious.



Read John 3:36, Taco:

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son [b]shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.[/b]

Future tense. Shall not see... means in the future. I suppose one could argue the line right after that, but if God's wrath abides on the unbeliever, then the unbeliever can shake it off... by believing.

Krispy

 2006/3/28 15:15
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

Quote:
One thing I have always thought about God's wrath though is that His wrath is not the tribulation but rather God's wrath is the final judgment of unbelievers. His wrath is eternal damnation is what I have always thought.



I tend to agree with that. I do see God's wrath aginst unbelievers during the tribulation and afterwards on the day of judgement.

I also agree that this needs to be a peaceful discussion. We can all disagree on this topic and all go to heaven. When we get there we will ask Jesus who was right and who was wrong.

I believe in a post-tribulation rapture. I have believed this for about 3 months now. I spent 20+ years on the pre-trib side and a part of me wishes they were right...because I don't want to go through the tribulation period at all...however I do want to be faithful to the word of God.

In my study, I see no evidence of 'two' events in which Christ returns to the earth. There is a Second Coming of Christ...not a Third.

 2006/3/28 15:18Profile
brentw
Member



Joined: 2005/12/14
Posts: 440
Ohio

 Re:

WOW!! Page 2 in about an hour... :-o

I think everyone is just waiting for the next post ;-)


_________________
Brent

 2006/3/28 15:22Profile
taco
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 211


 Re:

Quote:
but if God's wrath abides on the unbeliever, then the unbeliever can shake it off... by believing.



Absolutley I have done that myself :-)

You are missing my main point however.


(Abideth is present tense by the way)

 2006/3/28 15:22Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

Quote:
Again this whould seem to knock Krispy's premise that God won't pour out his wrath on the earth at the same time as those who follow him are there. it matters little if you call them "tribulation saints



If God cannot pour out his wrath on the earth at the same time as those who follow him are there...then that means one of two things:

1) God will never pour out his wrath on the world
2) There will be no such thing as a 'tribulation saint'

I think we can all agree that both options are impossible and unbiblical

So, what makes us Christians in this present age of grace immune to tribulation and why aren't the 'tribulation saints' as fortunate?

 2006/3/28 15:23Profile





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