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 Re:

It's discouraging to read Hayford promoting this mind-set. But then again, he has no problems rubbing shoulders with the array of false teachers/profits (.. er, prophets!) on TBN. He's buddies with Rick Warren. So to see someone of Hayford's caliber compromising the Word of God really isnt surprising.

This is why we have to guard ourselves against leaven. Scripture is dead on when it declares that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. People scoff at teaching concerning Biblical seperation, but there is good reason for it. We're not called to join together with false teachers, or read their books, or watch their shows, or go to their crusades... we're called to mark and avoid them. But few people are doing that because no one has the guts or the backbone to actually judge whats being taught and propogated today.

Mushy emotional "love" instead of Biblical tough love. Compromise and false unity instead of seperation. Experience over doctrine.

Add all of it together and you get a church that is NOT the true Church... but rather a false church. A church of non-believers partaking in the Lord's Supper. I believe the theological term for that would be "blasphemey".

Krispy

 2006/5/9 18:22
Tears_of_joy
Member



Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554


 Re:

Let us see what the bible says:

"Now when the adversaries of Judah and Benjamin heard that the children of the captivity builded the temple unto the LORD God of Israel;
Then they came to Zerubbabel, and to the chief of the fathers, and said unto them, [b]Let us build with you: for we seek your God, as ye do;[/b] and we do sacrifice unto him since the days of Esarhaddon king of Assur, which brought us up hither.
But Zerubbabel, and Jeshua, and the rest of the chief of the fathers of Israel, said unto them,[b] Ye have nothing to do with us to build an house unto our God; but we ourselves together will build unto the LORD God of Israel,[/b] as king Cyrus the king of Persia hath commanded us.
Then the people of the land weakened the hands of the people of Judah, and troubled them in building"
-Ezdra 4:1-4

This is very clear to me.

 2006/5/9 19:54Profile









 Re:

It's all compromise... every bit of it. And it will only get worse. Why do you think the churches that are holding to truth, and teaching their people sound Biblical doctrine are not big churches? Because in the last days people will not listen to sound doctrine. What we are seing today is prophecy being fulfilled before our very eyes.

I didnt get saved because some warm fuzzy church made me feel comfortable. I got saved because between the Holy Spirit, my wife and her preacher... I felt terribly UNcomfortable in my sin. There is no fear of God anymore. When was the last time you heard these feel good fuzzy preachers preach on the fear of God? But the fear of God is the BEGINNING of wisdom. If we dont have that first we have no wisdom! It's foundational.

When I am leading people to the Lord I do not pull any punches. I dont want someone I am working with to accept Christ because they feel all warm about Him... I want them to accept Christ because they understand that in their current state as a wretched wicked sinner they will soon be feeling a lot more than just warm! Only then will true conversion happen. Anything else is a false conversion to a false christ.

Krispy

 2006/5/10 7:31









 Re:

Holy cow... I just hit the 2000 mark! Did I win anything? A gas card perhaps?

Krispy

 2006/5/10 7:38
Tears_of_joy
Member



Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554


 Re:

Quote:
Holy cow...



Krispy, I am not familiar with this expression, can you explain the meaning?

 2006/5/10 18:02Profile









 Re:

It's American slang, it just means "Wow!", nothing more.

We have a lot of slang terms here in America that probably throw off a lot of people from other parts of the world. For instance, my sister-in-law is from the Phillipines and when I met her the first time she was still trying to understand our slang here. I was joking around with her, and used the slang term "I was just pulling your leg!", and she was confused and said "No, you never touched my leg!". It simply meant "I was kidding."

So no, "holy cow" doesnt mean I'm Hindu. I dont know where the term derived from. Probably some cowboy or something. It's like saying "Holy cats!" or "Holy Mackeral!" ... or the old Batman TV show... "Holy crime stoppers, Batman!"

Krispy

 2006/5/11 6:47
freedbyjc
Member



Joined: 2004/7/29
Posts: 204
Jacksonville. Florida

 Re: Whoa!

Time to slide out of the saddles dear ones! The air up there is a little thin...

Quote:
But it is one of the ways we incorporate unbelievers into our service.



Sounds very familiar ...

Quote:
19For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more.19For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more.

20To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law;

21to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.

22To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some.

23I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.

24Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.

25Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.

26Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air;

27but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.
1 Corinthians 9



If you read carefully the 'charge' he makes to all who partake in the Lord's Supper, and especially the statements aimed at the unbeliever, Jack Hayford is doing exactly as he says he is...supporting His body's call to save the lost in any way they can the whole point of the article EVANGELISM... reaching out and attempting to bring the unbelieveing visitor to the feet of Christ. Unconventional yes...Evangelistic unquestionably.

Quite a good possibility that Jack feels he is only following orders...
36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: "
Quote:
[color=CC0000]'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'[b] 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[c] 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."[/color]



My personal favorite for the start of a Communion Meditaton...
Quote:
[i]Oh, my brothers and sisters in Christ, if sinners will be damned, at least let them leap to hell [b][u]over our bodies[/u][/b]; and if they will perish, let them perish with our arms about their knees, imploring them to stay, and not madly to destroy themselves. [b]If hell must be filled, at least let it be filled in the teeth of our exertions, and let not one go there unwarned and unprayed for.[/b] [/i]Delivered on Sabbath Morning, December 9th, 1860, by the REV. C. H. Spurgeon



As WE not the unworthy ones who come weekly to the Communion table without a true SACRIFICIAL offering? Can we say of ourselves that we have laid down our lives and truly died to ourselves if we do not bring the lives of the lost that we have told of the truth of Christ to the table with us every week? Can we sleep soundly if we have ignored Christ and His message to tend and feed His sheep?

Again, is Hayford's Evangelistic method unconventional? YES... he cavorts with sinners and is seen in the company of false prophets but so was Paul's and he was mimicing the greatest teacher of them all, JESUS CHRIST.


_________________
bill schnippert

 2006/5/12 6:38Profile
Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re: Including Non-Christians in Christian Worship

1 Cor. 14:23-25

"If therefore the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak in toungues, and someone unlearned in toungues or unbelievers enter, will they not say you are insane?

But if all prophecy and some unbeliever or unlearned person enters, he is convicted by all, he is examined by all;

The Secrets of his heart become manifest; and so falling on his face; he will worship God, declaring that indeed God is among you"

Paul urges not the explination of going's on, but rather the practice of that which edifies and builds up the church.

Paul urges the practice of "all can prophecy" that is speaking Christ, and unfolding Christ so that those who come in among them would understand and percieve God's working among them. And through this speaking, they are convicted, there own condition because manifest to them and so they are brought to God.

This is the Biblical way of meeting, and the way unbelievers in a meeting are brought to Christ.

That is by the exercise of everyone's spirit in speaking and by the unfolding of the truth though the testimony of all.

And though the exercise of the spirit, the Spirit produces an atmousphere in which the Presence of God is manifest.

"Whenever two of more are gathered together in My Name, there am I in the midst."

"Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom"

Graftedbranch

 2006/5/12 11:15Profile
freedbyjc
Member



Joined: 2004/7/29
Posts: 204
Jacksonville. Florida

 Re:

Quote:
Paul urges not the explination of going's on, but rather the practice of that which edifies and builds up the church.

So where specifically does PAUL speak those words?

Quote:
Paul urges the practice of "all can prophecy" that is speaking Christ, and unfolding Christ so that those who come in among them would understand and percieve God's working among them. And through this speaking, they are convicted, there own condition because manifest to them and so they are brought to God.

This is precisely what Hayford was describing. Teaching and preaching in such a way as to minister to those who are present to bring them to the full knowledge and understanding of Jesus Christ in the actions of those worshiping Christ.

We are ALL members of the royal priesthood, all ministers of Jesus Christ and here is our calling ... to GO and MAKE disciples...to use our God-given and Holy Spirit empowered gifts given to us at baptism and our living, walking, breathing testimonies to edify, encourage and to lift up our brothers and sisters in our homes, our work, our neighborhoods and in our body of Christ. These are our expressions of the LOVE that we have received from jesus Christ and allow to over flow from us to those around us... that we give up our worldly lives for our neighbors.


_________________
bill schnippert

 2006/5/15 7:04Profile





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