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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Is the Bible really the inerrant Word of God?

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 Re: what the?!?!?

Quote:
unless the Lord burdens me further i won't argue this with you



I'm not looking for an argument... just seeing if I can get some folks to just think about this issue a little deeper.

I know you have, bro IRONMAN, and you have come to a different conclusion. Thats ok. At least you have come to an informed decision. Most Christians havent, they have just swallowed whatever they have been told... and that goes for both sides of the debate.

I really have no contention with anyone who has does the research.

Krispy

 2006/3/20 21:22









 Re:

Quote:
Not to sound spamish, but for everybody's benefit, here is a quote from the following site:



KJ... did you happen to notice that that article (and especially that site) in no way supports or bolsters your argument? Your kinda contradicting yourself by citing David Cloud...

Krispy

 2006/3/20 21:26









 Re:

Quote:
I HAVE SEEN THE DIFFERENCES WITH MY OWN EYES and there are plenty of works out there that document all the differences in all the manuscripts.



You do realize the TR is not a "manuscript" like the Alexandrian Texts, right? That the TR is a collection of miniscule writings taking from lectionaries and various other ancient witnesses, letters, etc.

You do realize that many of the passages of scripture that are omitted in the Alexandrian ARE quoted in the letters, sermons and writings of the first century church fathers... right? There were several men who compiled the writings and sermons of the first century chruch fathers, and every passage of the 27 books of the NT was quoted by them with the exception of 3 verses. One of the compilers was Dean Burgon, and I forget the other's name. I can find it easily tho if you want it.

Can I read Greek? No. But thats smoke and mirrors, KJ. Thats dodging the real issue and skirting the question. I dont have to know Greek to know the history of the Bible. I dont have to know Greek to know the Bible.

So far when you speak of there being no perfect translation or manuscript all you have mentioned is mispellings and typo's. How is that an argument? Is that all you have? Look at Tyndales Bible compared to Wycliffe's. Look at the 1611 compared to todays english. The English language had no standard of spelling until little over 200 years ago... and depending on where you are in the world today, there still isnt.

So whats your point?

Show me a real disagreement between manuscripts. Show me an error in the KJV.

Do you know with certainty, KJ, that you know you have a Final Authority? Can you honestly tell me that you know what the true Word of God says? Jesus said His word[b]S[/b] shall not pass away. But you say they did... when the originals disappeared from the scene.

How do you decide what is true in the Bible you read? Can you know with 100% certainty?

Krispy

 2006/3/20 21:37









 Re:

Quote:
Krispy, are you a lawyer? You seem to think from a legal perspective. (not a criticism)



No, I'm a structural engineer. ;-)

Diane, there is validity in what you say concerning the Holy Spirit. Scripture tells us that without the Holy Spirit the carnal man can not understand scripture.

I have to ask this tho... do we dumb down the Word of God to meet our level? Or is there anything wrong with people learning to read? Learning to open a dictionary? My 9 and 11 yr old sons sit down with a KJV and a dictionary. If they dont understand something they look it up. We homeschool, and our kids study the Bible everyday. If my 9 year old can learn the Bible via KJV... whats the matter with a 30 year old believer?

Studies have shown (one was done by Cornell University, and another by Harvard University) that the KJV is on a 5th grade reading level.

But really, the focus I was trying to stay with is this... if the inerrant Word of God is only found in the original writings, then how do we know with any certainty if we can trust our Bibles? How do we know what is true? Why was the creator of all heaven and earth too weak to preserve His word perfectly for us today? What kind of God is that that He allowed His inerrant Word to pass away... especially when He said:

Luk 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Krispy

 2006/3/20 21:50
h2oboy
Member



Joined: 2006/3/12
Posts: 89
Georgia, USA

 Re:

Dear Brother Krispy,

I have no desire to argue with you either. But maybe you could explain a couple of verses concerning the KJ translation.

Acts 12:4
4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people. KJV

Was Luke using a pagan holiday to mark time or should the Greek word 'Pascha' have been translated Passover, as in all the other passages?


Heb 4:7-8
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
KJV

Was the author of Hebrews meaning to say that David wrote these words in Psalm 95 after Jesus or should the KJ translators have written Joshua?

I grew up with the KJ and have memorized much from its pages however I do not feel compelled to exalt it as highly as you do.

Love in Christ,
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Smith

 2006/3/20 21:50Profile









 Re:

Quote:
What makes me uncomfortable, is that I deal with unbelievers on a daily basis who question the authority of the Bible. I KNOW that when I pick up my Bible, be it KJV, NKJV or NIV, God is going to speak to me. If I cannot be sure of God's Word, how can I be sure of anything? Can I even trust in my Salvation? How do I know I won't be reincarnated? How do I know that Jesus is God's Son? Why do I pray or study the Bible, if it isn't God's Word? How can I say, this is my Bible, I believe it, but only this version? That just seems to prove what the unbelievers think to be true.



And that is why you need to get this settled in your heart. There is truth... there is Final Authority.

The questions you raise is exactly what this whole issue has created: Confusion and questions. What is truth? If the supporters of modern versions are correct, then we cant know with any certainty.

But I believe we CAN know with certainty.

The proof is in the pudding. I'll stack the scholarship and the history of the KJV up against ANY modern version.

Krispy

 2006/3/20 21:53









 Re:

Quote:
I have no desire to argue with you either. But maybe you could explain a couple of verses concerning the KJ translation.



Jeff... it's very rare that I get on here in the evening. I can answer your questions, but it will be in the morning, ok?

Krispy

 2006/3/20 22:01
h2oboy
Member



Joined: 2006/3/12
Posts: 89
Georgia, USA

 Re:

No problem brother. Have a good rest in the Lord.

In His love,
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Smith

 2006/3/20 22:03Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Was the author of Hebrews meaning to say that David wrote these words in Psalm 95 after Jesus or should the KJ translators have written Joshua?



I looked in 3 different KJV's and my computer Bible, and they all say Joshua in verse 8, so I'm not sure where you're getting that from.

As for the Easter issue, there has been tons of stuff written about that... let me get back to you about it in the morning, ok?

Krispy

++ Just noticed the 1611 Authorized does say Jesus. Remember that Jesus in Hebrew is very much the same as Joshua (Yeshua), so I wouldnt call that a translation error. It has been cleared up so as to differentiate between the two.

 2006/3/20 22:05
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

KJ... did you happen to notice that that article (and especially that site) in no way supports or bolsters your argument? Your kinda contradicting yourself by citing David Cloud...



I simply cited him in order to support the fact that even he says the manuscripts differ and have errors in them in the TR tradition.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2006/3/20 22:08Profile





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