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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Chinese believers face torture and possible death sentence

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IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

sis annie
what you wrote in response was the same thing as what the Lord has been laying on me, i guess i'm not crazy after all.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/3/22 18:34Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re: Perspective

Greetings again beloved and choosen of God.

I pray that God would give us wisdom in how we see and respond to these things. Certainly we should not glory in suffering for suffering's sake. Yet we know that there is a suffering according to righteousness which is godly and even blessed

Quote:
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.



And yet I wonder how real this verse is for us as individuals

Quote:
And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it...



It is easy to become distracted by the duties of daily life and forget some things that are more pressing and needfull in light of eternity. How aware for instance, are we of the suffering of those around us, on our jobs? Suffering is something so universal to fallen man that there are no doubt many around you that are suffering and you may not even know it.

One thing I have realised that suffering is accomplishing in my own life is perspective. As I have experienced suffering in my own life it has enlarged my capacity to appreciate the lives of others. There is a pathos of the suffering soul that gives our eyes a vision they might not otherwise have and a tenderness our heart might otherwise not feel.

I have also come to understand more of my own desperate need of God's grace in suffering.

Brother J-bird, the story you shared from Fox's should really bring this home to us. None of us could possibly bear the onslaughts of the demonic inspired cruelties that have and can be unleashed upon mankind without our precious Saviour's grace. Ohh brothers let us never loose sight of how desperately we need Him in everything.

Remember our Lord's words to Peter before his trial

Quote:
But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not



Beloved we have a High Priest, and His intercession shall bring us through. We know it won't be our strength for sure.

Peace be with you all. And may we remember those in chains.

Brother Ironman, I thank God for your heart's desire, may He enlarge our hearts indeed!


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2006/3/22 18:54Profile









 Re:

Annie you are too sweet. To think that anyone actually looks for my posts blows my mind. Thank you for your kindness. You seem like such a kind, gentle person. I'll definately keep you in my prayers.

 2006/3/22 20:30









 Re: wrestling with turning the other cheek

Quote:

IRONMAN wrote:
bro J-bird

Quote:
Heres a reality check right out of Foxs book of martyrs. China, 1970. In August 1970, it was reported that vladimir, a chrisitan, was arrested in Shanghai. In prison they put iron tubes around his legs and tightened them with screws. Then they beat on the tubes with a hammer until the vibrations broke the bones in both legs. All this to make him confess to imaginary crimes against the government. He did not confess. Seversl communist police officers then went to his home and on of them, a womwn, held vladimirs baby in his hands and told Vladimirs wife, "If you don't sign an accusation against the prisoner (her husband), we will smash the head of the child." She refused, not believing any human being would do that. The woman police officer smashed the babys head against the wall several times killing the baby. The mother went mad and grabbed a knife from the table and stabbed the officer. The other police officer shot and killed her. Is this really the life we WANT to live. I prefer freedom. "Give me liberty or give me death."



i don't think anyone would want to live such a life but our life in Christ isn't about what we want, it's about what God wants. you say give me liberty or death i say give me Christ or death. i'm not afraid of death coz i know where i'll be after it all and if the Lord brings trial and suffering for His name's sake then i'd be honoured to endure it that His name be lifted up before my own desires.

i've oft marvelled at the anglo-american concept of liberty but never really known (so if you bro J-bird or anyone else can explain please do) what is it we are free from and how does that fit into God's plan? also is our right to defend ourselves a God-given right or one given by the world?is this liberty in Christ coz if it's not then should we be seeking it at all?

i've seen no evidence of any of the apostles or early Christians responding in kind to violence inflicted on them. then there is Christ saying to turn the other cheek and practising that on the way to the cross, His admonishion to pray for our persecutors and love those who hate us...then the latter part of hebrews 11 in which the afflicted didn't accept deliverance but endured for the sake of a better resurrection.

it seems the witness from the word is to suffer the affliction since vengeance is the Lord's so perhaps to resist is the way of the world?

Ironman, when I have more time I will explain to you why freedom is so important to me and my countryman. But for now I will share this story. I am telling it from memory, but I think I will be pretty accurate in it. During the Korean war the chinese would take American prisoners and put them through a psychological test called "BRAIN WASHING". What they would do is take a group of soldiers and remove any leadership in the group. Officers, high ranking noncommisioned officers, and so on and so forth. Sharing was discouraged and punished. They would keep them at the point of starvation and encourage "rating" or telling on one another and rewarded it with more rations. They were told every day that their country was EVIL and that they were being defeated and their country would soon fall at the hands of the communists. They were told that their leaders were all EVIL and that they were fighting a loosing battle and that their time as a soldier was a waste. Keep in mind that the tortures they recieved would kill the average man. But our soldiers were in good shape and could handle the torture. So eventually what would happen? Well, I'll tell you. The soldiers lost the WILL TO LIVE. They would find them with their heads covered up in their bunks dead. They would just give up and die because everything they were fighting for was, in their minds, gone. what does this have to do with anything? Again, let me explain. There is a movement in this country to try and overthrow any faith in our government so the people will lose the will to fight. Do you understand? There is alot of propaganda out there, and many people are falling for it.
If you will study our great countrys history you will see that MOST of our greatest leaders were indeed christian, and futhermore many of our greatest christian writers and preachers were soldiers. But be careful what you read today. Our history books have been altered.
The movement of today is to TRY and convince this generation that they were NOT christian, so they can say that this country was NOT founded on the BIBLE and CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLES and the TEN COMMANDMENTS and therefore throw out anything to do with God. The result of this is the demoralization of America, resulting in the judgement of God and His hand being removed from our great country. Check out the MAYFLOWER COMPACT. VERY IMPRESSIVE!!!!

 2006/3/22 20:55









 Re:

Brother J-bird, Thank you for saying you will pray for me.

I have to confess that I do have a weakness ... and it is that I can take a lot of persecution, but when I see my brothers or sisters being singled out, I'm like one of my cats ... she watches for a while, of who is picking on who, and then she jumps in to break it up ... only problem is, we're (she's) not God, and sometimes we jump when we shouldn't or on the wrong party.
I've seen this cat jump the wrong one, because she's some sorta peace fanatic. Ha.

I have a load of cats and she was a stray who had one eye shot out. But she thinks she's the House Mother and has to be the Peace Keeping unit here. Ha, but like I said, sometimes her intentions are good but her aim is wrong.

I'm not the biggest human on earth, and am a pascifist ... or at least I 'say' I am ... and I've had the Lord to show me how nuts I am. HA.

Well, working at night in a gas station, when a threat came in I stood in front of the other girl and another time a guy came in with panty hose over his face, saying give me the money and I pulled the panty hose off. HA. The cops thought that was a riot.

I don't fear death but the thing is that I mentioned and need prayer for ... is this jumping in and defending and I could relate to your post the page earlier here about defending folks.

I was driving down a road at night in the city.
A tall guy, 6 ft God knows what, was pushing a girl around on a bridge and it looked as if he was trying to get a hold of her to throw her off.

Well, I did a screeching wheel donut in the road and grabbed this 20 inch big screw driver that was in the car and was about to go after him, (mind you I'm 5'2" - ha), but Glory to God only, as I got just about where I was to jump out of my car at this guy ... she started laughing. PHEWY !

I do stuff on instinct sometimes, and don't trust my flesh (as we shouldn't), but I pray I'm never put in that position again, where I may hurt the wrong person ... I can do it verbally, thinking I'm defending properly, but not be in the Spirit or pray I'm never in the predictament I almost was with that giant on that bridge. Ha.

Funny but not really ... I need prayer.

Love youse guys.

 2006/3/22 21:15









 Re:

Karl Marx, whos writings have plagued this planet, and caused some of the greatest atrosities against human kind said something that kinda brings it all home."Destroy the roots of the people, and the people are EASILY swayed."
Ironman, the quote "give me liberty or give me death" came from one of my countrys greatest heros, Patrick Henry, who was a very godly man. You should read about Him. I believe patriotism and christianity go hand and hand.

 2006/3/22 21:49
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro J-Bird
i appreciate you humouring my questions/foolishness as i wrestle with all of this. you have a unique perspective on it all which i don't have since you were once a soldier.

i understand the issue of the proaganda out there which is indeed brainwashing some but there is a bit of brainwashing coming from both sides of the aisle though.

now i certainly agree that there is a movement to remove God from all things in this country with some degree of success. i wonder though whether these brazen attempts are a reflection of our own pushing God out the picture thus emboldening those with this agenda? :-( i must also mention that having been born here and been raised in zimbabwe and then returning here, i get an overwhelming sense of great pride among many people here and also the Lord is showing me that He shall bring that pride low, that we would humble ourselves before Him. perhaps this has to do with being the only superpower left, but history says that such prominence can't be sustained forever. my concern is now what becomes of us when all that is gone, when our wealth is gone, government is in tatters and military in shreds?

i'll await you response (if the Lord leads and allows you to) on the imprortance of liberty to you and your fellow man. of late though i feel that any liberty which must be fought for is not really liberty because we fight because we're afraid of losing that liberty. which is why i asked what sort of liberty is it that we fight for? liberty in Christ however once found doesn't come with a spirit of fear (i prefer the latter)then also it seems to me a lot of people are Americans first then Christians second or somewhere else down the line which is an idolatry and abomination before God which requires repentance.

bro i really am greatful for your time and responses for the Lord is teaching me through it all so i look forward to your responses. when i sign on so s.i. i always read your responses last...saving the best for last :-)

love you much bro


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/3/23 0:42Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro J-Bird

Quote:
Karl Marx, whos writings have plagued this planet, and caused some of the greatest atrosities against human kind said something that kinda brings it all home."Destroy the roots of the people, and the people are EASILY swayed."



indeed, i totally agree.

Quote:
Ironman, the quote "give me liberty or give me death" came from one of my countrys greatest heros, Patrick Henry, who was a very godly man. You should read about Him. I believe patriotism and christianity go hand and hand.



as the Lord leads i'll learn more about him. you said patriotism and Christianity go hand in hand. should they be in that order or reversed though? :-?


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/3/23 0:45Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro Chris

Quote:
I pray that God would give us wisdom in how we see and respond to these things. Certainly we should not glory in suffering for suffering's sake. Yet we know that there is a suffering according to righteousness which is godly and even blessed



amen bro! for what good is it if we gove our bodies to be burned and yet have not love? if the Lord should honour us with persecution then we should receive it gladly lest we kick against the goards of His will (and break our feet)

Quote:
It is easy to become distracted by the duties of daily life and forget some things that are more pressing and needfull in light of eternity. How aware for instance, are we of the suffering of those around us, on our jobs? Suffering is something so universal to fallen man that there are no doubt many around you that are suffering and you may not even know it.



indeed bro, it's amazing sometimes how just saying hello to someone can light up their face. earlier i was feeling really down and a lady came through here and made me laugh for a while which was what i needed at the time. there is indeed much suffering that goes on before our very eyes which we are oblivious to and could be used of God to alleviate. and when one has suffered too, one's heart is enlarged and more easily compelled to help.

Quote:
Brother J-bird, the story you shared from Fox's should really bring this home to us. None of us could possibly bear the onslaughts of the demonic inspired cruelties that have and can be unleashed upon mankind without our precious Saviour's grace. Ohh brothers let us never loose sight of how desperately we need Him in everything.



indeed, unless the Lord Himself by His Holy Spirit empower us, there is no way we can endure what is to come. bless the Lord we have holy SPirit and one who goes before the Father on our behalf.

bro the Lord has been burdening me about turning the other cheek and doing what is honorable in His sight. i pray that the Lord would indeed give us grace to do as He would have us do.AMEN.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/3/23 0:53Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

sister annie
i thank the Lord for your candor and will be holding you up in prayer. sis annie you're 5'2" you sound like you're 6' and at least a deuce...i'm 5/4 132lbs and on the rugby field i've been accused of playing like i weigh 250...go ahead on sis as the Lord leads.

love you sis!!!


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/3/23 0:56Profile





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