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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : The Basics

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Joined: 2005/7/3
Posts: 233
Lancashire, England

 The Basics

I read this in Christian in Complete armour last night:

In your study learn the basic precepts of Christianity before you try to tackle the larger issues. As children, first we go to grammar school, then we go to college; first we learn the facts, then we study the concepts. Your spiritual education is not so different. Christians who are not instructed in the fundamentals of Christianity are not likely to mature into solid saints. I sincerely believe a poor foundation is the reason many are not steadfast today. [b]Dear saint, do not be too proud to go back and learn the basic precepts of the gospel if you have not yet mastered them.[/b] Too many are more concerned about their reputation than their salvation.

Wow!!!! Gurnall's every sentence drips with wisdom, so where to start dear saints?

Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus [b]began[/b] to preach, and to say, [b]Repent[/b]: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Repentance is the place to start surely, it's the ground on which all initally come to God so why not start there, personally i feel i know very little of true repentance, i have only wept a few times over my sin, not often enough so i plan to study what the Bible says about repentance i plan to meditate on it and start to practice it in a way that will change me more.

All too often i feel that after i have sinnned i 'repent' but the next time the temptation arises it get's a upturned nose but after a few times a side glance and then back to the sin and the process starts all over again and again and again, which begs the question did i repent to begin with?

Thayers says that repent or metanoeō [μετανοέω] is:
1) to change one’s mind, i.e. to repent
2) to change one’s mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one’s past sins

Has my mind changed do i abhor what i have done i sadly feel i know very little about the abhorrence of my own sin, but it's more a fear of being found out, I'm ashamed yes but to abhor what i have done sadly no,

I posted this ask for prayer in my studies and if anyone wants to come with me on my journey to learn the basics of our faith, i dont know what the next one will be but i knew repentance had to come first.

I'd love to hear others experiences and wisdom on the issue of repentance

Always interested...



 2006/3/15 13:48Profile

Joined: 2006/3/12
Posts: 89
Georgia, USA

 Re: The Basics

Thanks Matt for bringing focus back to the foundation of faith.

I too had trouble with true repentance when I felt guilt for doing the things which I enjoyed. I felt conviction, others told me it was wrong but at the same time it brought pleasure. How do we abhor that which causes pleasure? I began to feel like Paul in Romans 7, a torn man, almost schitzophrenic.

Then I came to understand the why. Why was my pleasureable activity wrong? The reason was that it was not of faith. Rom 14:23 "whatsoever is not of faith is sin." ASV My indulgence was based upon what I wanted and not what the Lord wanted. I was not acting upon what He told me, I was acting independently, without permission, lawlessly. He showed me Matt 7:22-23 in a whole new light from the NLT;

22 On judgment day many will tell me, 'Lord, Lord, we prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.' 23 But I will reply, 'I never knew you. Go away; the things you did were unauthorized."

Unauthorized (anomia) without law, without governance, without a Lord or Master.

Now I was really convicted. I could really abhor my sin because it was one of rebellion, insubordination. I no longer needed to identify what not to do, I could remain single minded on one thing 'listen and obey.'

I repented. My thinking was changed. No longer was I in charge of my life, no longer do I initiate action, from now on I take orders from the King.

Matt keep challenging us with the basics.


Jeff Smith

 2006/3/15 15:07Profile

Joined: 2006/2/2
Posts: 61

 Re: The Basics

I think that this is a great thread. And one of the "princples of the doctrine of Christ" is definitely "the foundation of repentance" (Hebrews 6:1) We must be firmly grounded in the foundation before we can build thereon and "go on unto perfection."

I'm a little short on time right now, so I just wanted to suggest that we revisit repentance with a powerful sermon by Paris Reidhead, Except Ye Repent."

Lord willing, I'd love to be able to participate further in this discussion.

Your brother,

D. Bryant

 2006/3/15 15:53Profile

Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2777
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: The Basics

Repentance is the place to start surely, it's the ground on which all initally come to God so why not start there, personally i feel i know very little of true repentance, i have only wept a few times over my sin, not often enough so i plan to study what the Bible says about repentance i plan to meditate on it and start to practice it in a way that will change me more.

I believe you're right, repentence is the place to start. I did a little study on repentence a while back. It's very interesting to note how the Bible records the start of three different New Testament ministries...

First John the Baptist;
In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, And saying, [b]Repent ye[/b]: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.(Mat 3:1-2)
Then Jesus, as you already quoted;
The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up. From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, [b]Repent[/b]: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.(Mat 4:16-17)
And Peter's first sermon;
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, [b]Repent[/b], and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
(Act 2:37-38)
What about Paul? In Acts 26 he desribes his ministry or "heavenly vision" to Agrippa;

Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should [b]repent[/b] and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
(Act 26:19-20)
Beginning to see a pattern? No doubt about it.

In Christ,


Ron Halverson

 2006/3/15 17:36Profile

Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


The very act of repentance is turning away from sin and toward God, and in faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
[b]Act 20:21[/b] [color=990000]Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.[/color]

How do we abhor that which causes pleasure? It is knowing that which gives pleasure is sin. We are to abhor sin.

Some people say that they hate their sin, but in reality, they love it. They decieve themselves into thinking that they hate it by their own pride.

For example: The sin that I do is so abomitable and shameful, I only hate it because I do it and not because it is sin.

I am only offended by it because I'm too good of a person to do that very sin that is so abomitable and shameful, but in my mind I still love it becuase it gives me plesure.

My love for the pleasure that it gives me is stonger that the shame and filthyness.

All this is self centered, love of self, and pride. The guilt that I feal is not because God Hates it and it is a sin, but because I think I'm too good to actualy be doing the sin and it is too abomitable and shameful for me to it.

but the pride that is in me is not strong enough to stop sinning.

I must Love God more than myself, and that is how I am delivered.

This sort of looks like the battle that Paul preseants in Rom 7:15-25

 2006/3/15 18:36Profile


Wow, that was very good Logic. Thanks.

 2006/3/15 20:44

Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7509


I was going to post - and you beat me to it - and say the reason we keep 'falling into sin after repenting' is because we do not hate it enough! If we hate it we will flee from it! But you are right, the reason this act tempts us is because of the pleasure one derives from it!

Well spoken, Logic. Thanks for posting.


Sandra Miller

 2006/3/16 9:21Profile

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708


Christ is set us free. The reason we keep sinning is we don't love Him enough and trust that He is the reason if we repent and mess up, we are forgiven by His love and sacrifice. In Christ we are perfect before the Father and repentance is already taken care of. That is why: 1 John 1:8-10 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

The reason God is faithful to forgive sin if we ask is: 1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

That Seed is Christ and True repentance and forgiveness Is in Him. With out believing that Christ is in us and that is who repentance and forgiveness is in and not us, no forgiveness. If I ask for forgiveness as in God forgive me, am I forgiven in my own asking? Only if I believe in the Son of God and His Spirit is born again in me can this be true. For the world knowing Him not and their sin remains.

Why is God faithful to forgive and cleanse? Not because of what we have done or asked for, but because Christ did and does, He that is in us is or repentance and forgiveness and the only reason God is Faithful and Just to forgive us.
All forgiveness is there at the Cross, repentance is just agreeing with it, and God is Faithful to cleanse us from all unrighteousness by the Christ in us, not by the repentance.

In Christ: Phillip


 2006/3/16 13:37Profile

Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 621
Cache Valley, Utah


Hebrews 6:1-3 spells out the elementary truths of the gospel:

[i]"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit."[/i]

Notice the first elementary truth is repentance. Just wanted to confirm that.

Eli Brayley

 2006/3/16 14:47Profile

Joined: 2005/7/3
Posts: 233
Lancashire, England

 Re: The Basics 1: Repentance

Thank you all for your responses thus far, Logic that is an excellent post;

The story so far.. I went and got a list of all the times the words repent repented and repentance are found in the Scripture (i can put up a list if anyone wants.)

Repentance as far as i understand so far is to change your mind about something, in our case it is the sin that we have committed, our minds have to be changed about what sin we have committed:

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but [b]be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind,[/b] that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Here Paul states that we are transformed by the renewing of our mind, it is the act of repentance that brings about the new birth and with the new birth comes a new heart and mind, thus repentance leads to a new mind and that new mind leads to further repentance as we see with our new mind what our sin truelly means.

I looked at 1 Kings 8:46-53, which is part of Solomons prayer at the dedication of the Temple:

If they sin against thee, (for there is no man that sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, so that they carry them away captives unto the land of the enemy, far or near; 47 Yet if they shall bethink themselves in the land whither they were carried captives, and repent, and make supplication unto thee in the land of them that carried them captives, saying, We have sinned, and have done perversely, we have committed wickedness; 48 And so return unto thee with all their heart, and with all their soul, in the land of their enemies, which led them away captive, and pray unto thee toward their land, which thou gavest unto their fathers, the city which thou hast chosen, and the house which I have built for thy name: 49 Then hear thou their prayer and their supplication in heaven thy dwelling place, and maintain their cause, 50 And forgive thy people that have sinned against thee, and all their transgressions wherein they have transgressed against thee, and give them compassion before them who carried them captive, that they may have compassion on them: 51 For they be thy people, and thine inheritance, which thou broughtest forth out of Egypt, from the midst of the furnace of iron: 52 That thine eyes may be open unto the supplication of thy servant, and unto the supplication of thy people Israel, to hearken unto them in all that they call for unto thee. 53 For thou didst separate them from among all the people of the earth, to be thine inheritance, as thou spakest by the hand of Moses thy servant, when thou broughtest our fathers out of Egypt, O Lord GOD.

Here we see that when we repent before the Lord and tunr to Him with our WHOLE heart then He will forgive [b]ALL[/b] our sin v.50, But there is more in this passage we see WHY the Lord wants to forgive us:

V.52 That thine eyes may be open unto the supplication of thy servant, and unto the supplication of thy people Israel, to hearken unto them in all that they call for unto thee.

He forgives us and brings us out of the bondage of sin that He might have compassion on us and enable us to call upon Him. How amazing the know that it thrills the heart of the Creator of all things to hear the supplication of one of His creatures.

I also looked up Job 40:1-5;

Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said, 2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it. 3 Then Job answered the LORD, and said, 4 Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth. 5 Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea, twice; but I will proceed no further.

Here righteous Job declares himself to be vile, what repentance! and delares he cannot answer the Lord anything, oh that we might know this!

Further on Job 42:5,6 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. 6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

Here Job beholds the Lord an all he can do is reflect on his own abhorant state and repent in dust and ashes, one commentary says the dust and ashes signifies Job's opinion of his own righteousness.

The final passage i looked up was Ezra 9:6-8;

And said, O my God, I am ashamed and blush to lift up my face to thee, my God: for our iniquities are increased over our head, and our trespass is grown up unto the heavens. 7 Since the days of our fathers have we been in a great trespass unto this day; and for our iniquities have we, our kings, and our priests, been delivered into the hand of the kings of the lands, to the sword, to captivity, and to a spoil, and to confusion of face, as it is this day. 8 And now for a little space grace hath been showed from the LORD our God, to leave us a remnant to escape, and to give us a nail in his holy place, that our God may lighten our eyes, and give us a little reviving in our bondage.

This is a stunning passage there is so much wealth in it, the Lord showed me that there is not point looking up if your iniquity reaches over your head because all you will see is your iniquity, remember what our Lord said in Luke 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, [b]would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven,[/b] but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

But praise God for the hope in this passage in Ezra He has given us a nail in His Holy Place, i think it was Appolus who recently worte beautifully about how this nail is Christ one whom hangs the sin of the world, He offers us drowning sinners whose sin reaches up to Heaven far above our heads a nail pierced hand, haha glory!!! what else does it say? "God will lighten our eyes and give us a little reviving in our bondage" Prasie the Lord He does it all doesn't He and why? Because only God can save us dear saints that is the depth of our transgression against Him that only Almighty God can save us no one else!!!


God bless you all for your responses



 2006/3/16 16:55Profile

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