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armyofchrist
Member



Joined: 2006/1/5
Posts: 2


 Re: Revival Idolatry

Hi all, I don't post much on here, but after reading this I felt compelled to reply.

Quote:
Do you think that many of us, especially on this website, seek Revival more than God?



I used to struggle with myself. I listened to my first Ravenhill sermon about a year ago and I've never been the same since. I've listened to many other sermons of his since then. My prayer life has completely changed. I've grown closer in my walk with God than ever in my life. I have desired God and revival and, well, this did become a problem for me. The question kept lingering in my mind:
Just what is it that we should be seeking--God or revival?

Ravenhill adequately answers this question in the Revival Forum video. And it totally clicked in my mind when I heard it.
Revival [i]is[/i] God!
Revival is not just a whole bunch of people getting saved, it's God coming down in His glory.

Leonard Ravenhill made it clear. We're not supposed to be seeking revival, we're supposed to be seeking God!
"What does it say in Malachi? 'The Lord whom ye seek...' We're not seeking Him, we're seeking revival, we're seeking healing, we're seeking miracles. It's not [i]that[/i] we need--if we get God we get all that's needed!"

As he put it, "The first commandment is not 'Thou shall be a soul-winner,' the first commandment is 'Thou shall love the Lord with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength.'" We should seek God and His glory every day, and not be able to live without His presence. The day that Christ's church awakens and starts longing for the Lord in this manner, we will see revival.

 2006/3/15 3:32Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: Revial = true Salvation

The Scriptures that teach us how to live the Christian life are helpful to those who know God and are empowered by the Spirit, are truly born again and set free. "you are free to be God's slaves" 1 Pet. 3:16 But I believe that the church as we see it is beyond that point. The reality, is the people (professing Christians) are UNABLE TO. And that is the first step we must come to see. We as a church are fatally wounded – and can’t even to see our need for divine healing (true salvation):

Jeremiah said:
"The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure." Jer. 17:9
Joshua pronounced this same fatal diagnosis in his farewell address to Israel: "'You are not able to serve the Lord.'
However, the people (all younger than him) couldn’t see this fatal diagnosis of their hearts:
”But the people said to Joshua,
'No! We WILL serve the Lord and obey him'
Then Joshua, who had lived long enough to know the futility of such good intensions said, 'You are witnesses against yourselves
that you have chosen to serve the Lord." Joshua 24:19 -24.

Isaiah pronounced the same fatal diagnosis on the rebellious nation of Israel by referring to them as a wounded body:
Your whole head is injured,
your whole heart is afflicted.
From the soul of your foot to the top of your head,
there is no soundness -
only wounds and welts and open sores,
not cleansed or bandaged or soothed with oil. Is. 1:5,6

Jeremiah told Israel:
"Your wound is incurable,
your injury beyond healing.
There is no one to plead your cause,
no remedy for your sore, no healing for you." Jer. 30:12

Paul even recognized the fatal condition in himself:
I know I am rotten through and through
so far as my old sinful nature is concerned.
No matter which way I turn,
I cannot make myself do right." Rom. 7:18 NLB

Clearly, we CANNOT live the Christian life. We cannot bring about revival. We need divine enlightenment and empowerment.
I believe that scripture clearly teaches that without God’s intervention the Church would cease to exist. Redeemed life is not genetically transferred. What is transferred, however, is the form of godliness – through social conditioning. And, sadly, we highly value that.
The church will never recognize its fatal diagnosis unless God himself reveals it. And he will, no doubt when we feel the full effects of our fatal diagnosis and are ready to cry out to him in desperation, saying, “Lord, save me, help me, I CAN’T”

As of yet, I believe that we are just like Israel was in Joshua’s day,declaring: “We WILL serve the Lord.’

If you question this deception, just study the words of most of our contemporary songs.

Diane


_________________
Diane

 2006/3/15 8:04Profile
saltlicker20
Member



Joined: 2005/11/11
Posts: 57
Grand Saline, TX

 Re:

Bomar wrote:

Quote:
Amen. This strong desire for "revival" almost ruint my entire ability to minister anything. To simply share the gospel, or give an open air sermon, or a small Bible study, I felt like a failure because the rushing wind simply wasn't shaking the walls.




Man....amen brother. When I first became a full time minister, I became so discouraged when I didn't see this great movement that I had made up in my mind. Praise God for just being obedient to Him as the standard, and nothing else that can come from our hands.

In His,

DO
I Pet 4:2


_________________
DO

 2006/3/15 9:52Profile
h2oboy
Member



Joined: 2006/3/12
Posts: 89
Georgia, USA

 Re:

Amen brother DO!

1 Cor 3:5-7
5 What then is Apollos? and what is Paul? Ministers through whom ye believed; and each as the Lord gave to him.
6 I planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth anything, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. ASV

What a freedom in ministry came when He showed me that my responsibility is to faithfully do whatever he tells me and not concern myself with the results. I can take no credit for His increase and take no guilt or shame if I see nothing, if I have been faithful. Some fruit will come after I am long departed but His reward is for faithful obedience not fruit count!

Jeff


_________________
Jeff Smith

 2006/3/15 10:07Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

How did Ravenhill's associations with these "false folks" actually influence him to go astray? What false teachings did he adopt and promote?
How old was he when this happened? What might have "pulled" him off course?



I'm not really sure how far their influence made on him in this latter part of his life. All I know is that in one of his sermons he refers to one of these individuals as a good friend, which is very shocking. If I recall correctly, the Aneheim series was in the last year or two of his life.

I hope the only thing that "pulled him off course" was his old age and perhaps him not being all mentally there.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2006/3/15 11:45Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

Quote:

Ravenhill was never part of anything larger than individual church revivals. To my knowledge, he never partook of a revival that shook a city or nation.




I dont know if you knew but Ravenhill was a pastor and had a real revival in his church!?



Did you actually read what I said? Notice I said he experienced revival at the local church level, but nothing anymore than that e.g. city-wide, nationally, etc.

Not to discourage people from praying for revival or speaking on revival, but it seems despite all of Ravenhill's praying for revival and encouraging on revival, he never saw it outside the local church level. And frankly, as wonderful as this is, it is rather common.

It is also interesting to see, to my limited knowledge of Ravenhill, that this only occurred in his early years. The later part of his life seems to be absent of seeing revival even at the local level.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2006/3/15 11:54Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

I would also like to say, as wonderful as the sermons and books of individuals like Ravenhill have been in my walk, I must say I don't have a great interest in hearing too much more of his sermons and such.

Frankly, as much as the messages of no compromise and revival are needed, they simply are not going to give one enough meat to live the victorious Christian life. Frankly, such messages aren't really meat, but are milk. Hebrews acknowledges this as such:

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment.

Most of "revival" preaching such as Ravenhill and the like talked about focuses on laying a foundation of repetnance and faith towards God, and talking about eternal judgment. And no doubt, such messages ARE needed. And no matter how much we mature in the Lord, we will need to be reminded of these things, just as Peter said (2 Peter 1:12-15).

But frankly, one will have a hard time living the victorious Christian life if all one hears is "repent, we need revival, Jesus is coming, we need to look at things in light of eternity, we need to pray more!" As great as these things are, they are only the basics. And yes, these basics still challenge me!

But there is so much more and more meaty things to chew on. This is what I like about men like A.W. Tozer. He had a lot to say on revival and such. However, at the same time he was able to dig into the depths of the Scriptures, and teach on them. I would imagine that many of those who sat under Tozer's ministry were very sound and balanced Christians. And as history seems to testify to, those who simply sit under revivalists seldom seem to endure in the faith, let alone reach maturity.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2006/3/15 12:21Profile
brentw
Member



Joined: 2005/12/14
Posts: 440
Ohio

 Re:

Quote:
I don't have a great interest in hearing too much more of his sermons and such.



At least we know now. :-)


_________________
Brent

 2006/3/15 12:25Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

At least we know now



Well, I say this after listening to nearly 75% if not more of his sermons on here, and reading every book he wrote.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2006/3/15 12:55Profile
Tears_of_joy
Member



Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554


 Re:

Quote:
I must say I don't have a great interest in hearing too much more of his sermons and such.



Thank you for the acknowledgement.

 2006/3/15 16:28Profile





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