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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Revival Idolatry

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 Re: Revival Idolatry

Hi TS, (Sorry this is rather a long post.)

I also was thinking of those verses from Isaiah which you quote.

I hear exactly what you are saying, but I don't think it's the most useful way to think... to say we are only 'positionally' righteous or holy.

The blood of Christ does not 'cover'...... that is an Old Covenant concept...... the blood of Christ [u]actually[/u] [b]cleanses[/b] (the soul - the heart, the mind, the spirit of a person) to a condition which satisfies God's standard.

If you have not felt experientially clean by your interaction with God on this point, then I commend to you that there is more to receive, which brings 1 John 1:7 into a continuous reality.... the presence in which we should live. There are a lot of Christians who take the benchmark for assessing our condition, as somewhere in Romans 7; whereas I take the exposition there as a [i]stage[/i] (phase) in coming to an understanding of what God has dealt with, [u]and given us in Christ[/u].

There is this verse in Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead [b]will also give life to your [u]mortal bodies[/u] through His Spirit who dwells in you[/b].

which does more than [i]imply[/i] that the Holy Spirit affects our flesh. Yes, there [i]was[/i] a death-working principle in our flesh (sin) but, that has been replaced by a [i][b]life-working[/b][/i] principle - the Holy Spirit. Unless we [i]expect[/i] to see this working out in our day to day lives, we are in a losing battle.

I don't see how we can have it both ways. Either the baptism into the death of Jesus Christ enables us to walk in newness of life (Rom 6:4) or it doesn't. The principle by which it [i]works [b]continuously[/b][/i] is faith.

Faith is not a nebulous entity either, it is the [u]substance[/u] of what we cannot see physically, and causes us to connect with invisible reality - more real than the visible realities which surround us, including our flesh.

I may be limited in what I understand and can explain, but what I [i]say[/i], I have proved and continue to prove. The reasoning you put forward in your last post, I would call [i]a shaky foundation for living[/i]; it stands to feed any number of doubts which the accuser would present all day long, and to put more pressure on the [i]mind[/i] of the believer than the Lord intends / intended.

The absolute baseline for sanity has to be that [u]we have passed from death into life[/u].

John 5:24
"[b]Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life[/b]. (NKJV)

But the Holiness is not our own...

I'm uneasy with this statement... not because I think the holiness is our own, but because I believe we [i]must[/i] appropriate it, to please Him.

Matthew 22:11
"But when the king came in to see the guests, he saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment. 12 So he said to him, 'Friend, [u]how did you come in here without a wedding garment?[/u]' [b]And he was speechless[/b].

Revelation 7:14
So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

To me [b]I think sin is contagious[/b] and Holiness something people think incorrectly about...We are Holy in position only...just as we are righteous positionally only before the throne. I do think that as we are led by the Spirit at times we may do Holy things or act in ways that are Holy...but always it is God working in us. Our flesh is right around the corner...some walk more Holy than others but it is all as filthy rags compared to Gods Holiness.

In these thoughts you express, you are disputing God's word, which is worrying. First, He says '[b]our[/b] righteousnesses are as filthy rags'. (Isa 64:6) That is a whole lot different.

If God imputes Righteousness to us, and Holiness to us, on His terms, then neither are, in His sight, 'as filthy rags'. They are attributes of Christ, His beloved Son in whom He was well pleased, and we cannot say they are not good enough for us or impute to them some inferior quality which enables us to slide out from accepting them. This is a false premise.

Also, in Isaiah 6 which you quote, in v 7
He touched my mouth with it and said, "[b]Behold, this has touched your lips; and [u]your iniquity is taken away and your sin is forgiven[/u][/b]."

We have to begin [i]believing[/i] this, for other things to fall into place in our experience of God's life in us according to His grace.

In my previous post, I drew attention to only one of several Old Testament verses in which the holiness of the holy thing by touching another, made that other thing holy. Paul says this of a believer's children. I maintain that if the Old Covenant could do more than [i]impute[/i] holiness to objects, how much more under the New Covenant can God find us acceptably holy through the merits of His Son? We have to [i]believe[/i] the word of God.... the Word of God.

 2006/4/9 12:41

 Re: Revival Idolatry

that is part of full sanctification that we will reach when we get our resurrected Bodies...does this make sense?


Again, I believe this is mixing human thinking with what the word of God means.

Matthew 13:33
Another parable He spoke to them: "The kingdom of heaven is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal till it was all leavened."

Luke 13:20, 21
And again He said, "To what shall I liken the kingdom of God? "It is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal till it was all leavened."

I would be grateful if you would read this short thread on sanctification as a biblical concept - that of being set apart for a specific purpose, rather than as a progressive process through which a person passes like a loaf in the oven.

Once the leaven is in the meal, that meal is set apart to that purpose and no more leaven need be added to it....

I think we also need to remember God's [i]redeeming[/i] grace - that He buys us back in any condition, and [i]after we are completely His[/i] we are changed into His likeness. Again, we must believe this. (2 Cor 3:18, 1 John 3:2) Of course, we have to co-operate with Him for this to be true in our growing reality.


 2006/4/9 13:07

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