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saltlicker20
Member



Joined: 2005/11/11
Posts: 57
Grand Saline, TX

 Revival Idolatry

Do you think that many of us, especially on this website, seek Revival more than God?

I read a little Oswald Chambers this morning over Surrender...and I truly think that I have sought Revival and Ministry more than the face of God these past few months.

I don't know....am I the only one who struggles with this? Has anyone else come to a point in their relationship with God where they find themselves praying more for the movement of God than for the intimacy of God?

I want revival so that God's glory will be shown and His name vindicated...for souls to be harvested. In the ministry I yearn to see a generation rise up as a hell wrecking, kingdom advancing group who know God face to face. I want to know God's heart...but I tend to put the prior two things above this - any suggestions on balancing these as well??

Thanks,

DO
I Pet 4:2


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DO

 2006/3/13 9:28Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re: Revival Idolatry

Quote:
In the ministry I yearn to see a generation rise up as a hell wrecking, kingdom advancing group who know God face to face.



I too deeply want this, but I have come to a reality. That reality is that I am the only one I can control. I do pray that God woul move, yes. The only revival I can truely have a part in is the one that is in me.

I can pray for others, preach to others, but I will stand before God alone.


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Josh Parsley

 2006/3/13 9:42Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2779
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: Revival Idolatry

Quote:
I read a little Oswald Chambers this morning over Surrender



Yes, this March 13th item from My Utmost for His Highest has really challenged me also. Chambers said that genuine surrender is [i]a personal sovereign preference for Jesus Christ Himself.[/i] I have to ask myself if I prefer the Lord Himself or do I just prefer to consider what he can do for me or the church, including revival. Hard question, the honest answer causes me to groan.

Have you ever heard the pain in Leonard Ravenhill's voice in the clip from the Revival Hymn where he says, "I'm tired of reading about revival. I'm tired of writing about revival..."? I feel the same way and yet he never stopped praying for it and neither will I. However Ravenhill went on to say that God seeks men who will do anything He asks, in other words, men with a personal sovereign preference for Jesus Christ Himself.

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2006/3/13 10:06Profile









 Re:

Back when I was involved in the WOF/Charismatic Movement I saw people run all over the country chasing the latest so-called "revival". People flying to Toronto... flying to Brownsville... you name it. Traveling 500 miles to see Benny Hinn. I always thought there was something wrong with Hinn, but I did go to Brownsville once. So I got caught up in that myself.

It is possible to seek anything more than God. Especially experience.

We seek the gift more than the Giver.

Thank the Lord I have renounced the WOF/Charismatic Movement. The revival I seek comes with tears of repentance... not signs and wonders.

Krispy

 2006/3/13 10:31
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re: Revival Idolatry

Sometimes I think there is an unhealthy focus on "revival" by many.

This is one thing I do not like about Leonard Ravenhill. Revival is needed these days no doubt, but it is interesting that of all the things the likes of Ravenhill and others said on revival, it is actually interesting to see how little the Scriptures really treat the topic of "revival." When you really stop and think about it, how much of what "revivalists" have said is preaching grounded in the Scripture?

I think this is perhaps why it seems Ravenhill was led astray near the end of his life by false prophets like Paul Cain and such. I mean, my God, by the end of his life he was pretty much singing the praises of these false prophets and you can see him being manipulated by them all throughout his Aneheim series on revival. They were able to flatter his desire, likening him unto Simeon of Luke 2, saying that before he would die that he would see the revival he longed for. Sadly, Ravenhill never saw the revival he longed for.

On top of it, I think if we simply focus on "revival" we will have a tendency towards romanticism. I love Ravenhill and am greatly indebted to him, but I think he tended to suffer from this problem as well. Read almost any of his books where he talks about prophets, and this will be evident if you actually examine the Scriptures closely. Prophets weren't God's crisis men for crisis situations. Such might preach, but it's bad theology.

I say instead of focusing simply on "revival" we simply need to focus on Christian living, and all aspects of that living. There are revival junkies, some perhaps on this forum's web site, who know nothing of victorious Christian living. Such is revival.


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Jimmy H

 2006/3/13 11:47Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I say instead of focusing simply on "revival" we simply need to focus on Christian living, and all aspects of that living. There are revival junkies, some perhaps on this forum's web site, who know nothing of victorious Christian living. Such is revival.



Brother KJ... I could not even come close to putting the words together to express what you just posted. Amen amen amen!

I was listening to Ravenhill mp3's from another site the other day, and I was kinda taken aback by how little of the scriptures he referenced while he preached. He used a verse here and a verse there as proof texts, but no real Bible teaching. Just a lot of conjecturing.

Krispy

 2006/3/13 11:54
brentw
Member



Joined: 2005/12/14
Posts: 440
Ohio

 Re:

Quote:
I want revival so that God's glory will be shown and His name vindicated...for souls to be harvested.



I think you just answered yourself! You are jealous for His glory and thats what its about. We cant have revival if we dont "ASK"!! We need a personal revival GREAT, but we need to pray and seek God that our cup would over flow into the church. Evan Roberts was consumed with revival until he had it, and every christian or church didnt just say 'well all I need is personal revival' NO, NO they were consumed with it with brokeness & tears pleading with God....they didnt just wish this into being!! Its easy NOT to pray for revival because it doesnt cost anything.



Ravenhill said: "Revival must not be just a once-a-week concern in the midweek church prayer meeting...would any girl become an opera singer by practicing once a week? NO! She must give herself to singing.


Quote:
I was listening to Ravenhill mp3's from another site the other day, and I was kinda taken aback by how little of the scriptures he referenced while he preached. He used a verse here and a verse there as proof texts, but no real Bible teaching. Just a lot of conjecturing



Ravenhill saw and had real revival in a church...have we?? If I want to learn how to be a world champ at golf....I'll listen with open ears to Tiger Woods...(I dont golf)
Krisp, I know what your saying but when or if I pray 8-10 hours like Ravenhill a day maybe I'll see things in a new light.... I wouldnt say anything bad about John Wesley...how could I. These men payed a price that many of us who live in America are not willing to pay.


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Brent

 2006/3/13 12:25Profile
brentw
Member



Joined: 2005/12/14
Posts: 440
Ohio

 Re:

Quote:
it is actually interesting to see how little the Scriptures really treat the topic of "revival." When you really stop and think about it, how much of what "revivalists" have said is preaching grounded in the Scripture?



Well, I continue to disagree with you but I count you as a brother...
I've read every book, every video + videos most people dont have, lots & lot of audio sermons, and you say not enough bible?? I say different.

Quote:
I think this is perhaps why it seems Ravenhill was led astray near the end of his life by false prophets like Paul Cain



Led astray!!??? When I look at a giant like this.. I dont shoot from the hip...no,no..... "All things work together"
You know its like those ministers who came to his home (Martha told this) and Ravenhill was still sleeping....Martha never told them why he was still sleeping (up praying all night) and those ministers think what kind of preacher is this sleepin in, and telling others to do the opposite?? Those ministers wernt to fond then...

Thank God Ravenhill never lived to impress men!!!
Maybe we should try that!!??? ;-)


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Brent

 2006/3/13 15:23Profile
murdog
Member



Joined: 2006/2/4
Posts: 352
Fort Frances, Ontario

 Re:

I think Ravenhill is one of the best teachers we have had and the burden he had for the Church was something we could all benefit from. The bible might not use the term revival but it is definitely a theme. Old and New Testament. 1 Chronicles 15:4 But in their distress they turned to the Lord, the God of Israel, and He was found by them. These people sought God wholeheartedly and were rewarded. If you want a revival for His glory and for people to be saved what is wrong with that? I can only reckon myself dead to the flesh and pray for others to come to the same place.

Murray


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Murray Beninger

 2006/3/13 16:00Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: Idolatrous craving for revival

Quote:
Do you think that many of us, especially on this website, seek Revival more than God?



This is a risky question because it asks for our opinion - and that is dangerous ground to tred. We might not see the way God sees.

I once heard a revival preacher say, "You can start worshipping revival without knowing it."

And that, I fully agree with. In James it says that desires can lead us astray - into sin. It is our desires that cause us to fall prey to temptations. And Satan knows just what we want, and can mimic it with the most ideal temptations.

A desire for revival, though, in itself, is not wrong, can be tainted with faulty desires. ex, we want something awesome to happen, something that is exciting, we want things to "turn out right", we want something that we can write about, that makes our church wonderful, get more members, etc etc.

There can be a longing in our heart that yearns for somthing that we do not have, cannot have, but we feel we must have it in order to feel secure in our topsy turvey world, to validate our prayers, give us the optimal religious experience, better fellowship .... or whatever.

Our "burden" for revival can cause us to miss the obvious - what God is doing under our noses, though in very quiet, unimpressive ways. Idolatrous yearning for revival will side track us an cause us to neglect our present responsibilites.

Faulty desires can be very suble and unconscious, not obvious like those who run here and there to "revival" meetings, renewal meetings or whatever. (even then, we must be very careful how we judge, for God is quite able to use even faulty desires)

Scripture tells us to be content, wait patiently, trust in God's timing, continue being disciples and love those who are in our lives right now - even the "unrevived" ones.

To rest in the Lord, yet feel a burden for revival - that is our challenge.

Have you ever thought that God might answer our prayers in the next generation?
Diane


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Diane

 2006/3/13 16:11Profile





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