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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Debating with Witnesses

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Greenquality
Member



Joined: 2006/1/26
Posts: 189
mountains of Pa.

 Re:

In the orthodox christianity the diety of Jesus is explained in The king james John1:1,[u]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.[/u]here is what translated in the new world translation published by the Jehovah's witnesses john1:1[i]in the beginning was the word, and the word was with god and the word was a god.[/i]what the difference between this two tranlation? they twist the word of God to fit their false teachings, they seprate the word of God from God,making them two god's and by adding (word was a god) apart from God.satan tries to de-thron Jesus,thur this false teaching,by attacking the Diety of Our LORD Christ.who is God became flesh.

 2006/3/3 22:34Profile
saved_matt
Member



Joined: 2005/7/3
Posts: 233
Lancashire, England

 Re:

I injured my foot this week meaning that today i couldn't go out open airing, what does this have to with JW's u ask well.... u guessed it this morning 2 of em rang my doorbell :-D :-D

we discussed the 144,000, the jews, the new heaven and the new earth and drum roll ....... the Deity of our Lord Jesus i found one of them (the elder) to be well versed in scripture even 1 john 5:7.

But and here he got a bit concerned i turned in the Bible (mine not his) to Hebrews 1:8. lets have a look at this wonderful verse hey..

[i]But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever: a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of thy kingdom.[/i]

utterly mavelous!!! isn't it ? when read in context it's the Father talking to Jesus and calling Him God, in fact the whole of Hebrews 1 is wonderful in showing how Jesus is not an angel as they say.

Praise the Lord because as they were talking to me they weren't trying to get at anyone else, in fact i think after leaving they went home and gave up the door knocking because of time.

So i didn't get to street preach but i did get to witness.. to some witnesses lol :-P

matt


_________________
matt

 2006/3/4 9:03Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Praise be to God Matt! Very good.


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2006/3/4 9:32Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re:

I just read through this thread, and see lots of good advise, so I have very little to add. I like Krispy's advice - to avoid a set up for controversy. And Philologos helps you see that they are quite "air tight". "Disucssion about doctrine is likely totally none producive, since you both would have a very specific agenda: to change each other's mind.

The real concern that I don't see mentioned yet is your sister. Think about her. Why did she leave her church? Can you minister into THAT? You likely won't be much help by trying to convince her of the errors of the JW. She needs to be ministered to and for now the JW's are doing that for her. Can you not do better - after all, you are her sister and you have Christ. Be her "church", touch her with love. Listen to her, value her, accept her, but don't be like those who have hurt her (whatever way that was). Maybe you need to let her share her pain in a none-judging way.

Let me tell you a true story: One day I received a call from a lady asking me if I knew of a cleaning lady. I felt a divine prompting to offer myself, even though that is not what I do. I went to her house, helped her clean and we had lunches together. I found out she was a JW. Ten years prior, she had left her church and joined the JW for the SAME REASON that your sister has. She said to me that the JW were very kind to her, they helped her in her troubles, and they have always been there for her. She added that they would have preferred to clean her house too, and would not have wished that she hired me. (she was being a bit rebellious by hiring me)

Anyway, it was a great way for me to learn about her, and share what Christ meant to me through our conversation. Trust me, I did not enter into debate. I could see that she was still burdened down by "law" and needed to be freed in Christ. She was very touched by my Christian testimony and told me so.

Please, please, please, be a friend to your sister. Let God help you know what to say to her. If you pull too hard in one way, you only reinforce her move in the wrong direction. Remember the JW's will be standing there to grab her with open arms.

May God's angels go with you as you administer your divine calling.
Diane


_________________
Diane

 2006/3/4 10:18Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Theological/Biblical terms

Sol,
A ton of excellent advice was given here...however, I did not read all of it so I hope you will excuse me if I am repeating someone else.

I have talked a lot with JWs. What I am going to say is an observation I have made based on these experiences.

Jw's will use 'Biblical terms' in discussing the scriptures. However, they attach different meanings to them!!! Be AWARE OF THIS. IT IS DANGEROUS!. If you ask them if they are 'born again' they may say 'YES!' (They do here in our part of the state). Then ask them to describe it to you. Herein lies a very important discerning tool: ask them to describe a theological term for you. Having said that, I will NOT use theological terms at all when talking scripture with them. I will use many words if necessary in discussing a concept when one word would normally do. Another thing they will do, is if they get backed into a corner, they will come back next week and teach you, using your language to wiggle out of it!

Diane suggested you be friends with you sister. I would guess at this point in time, this may be the easiest thing for you to do.

Blessings,
ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2006/3/4 16:00Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re: Theological/Biblical terms

Yesterday I was discussing the idea of Jesus being the Holy One in Scriptures with a Witness who wanted to talk about the trinity. Then we got into Daniel and from there I pointed out to him that Jesus is refered to as the Prince, in capital letter, throughout the book of Daniel. Then I pointed out to him that Jesus it the Prince of princes, again found in the Scripture below. Then I pointed out that Michael the archangle was refered to as a prince and not the "Prince."

He was convicted yet still will not give up the traditions of men...

See the Scripture below

Dan. 8:10 And it grew up to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the ground, and trampled them. 11 He even exalted himself as high as the Prince of the host; and by him the daily sacrifices were taken away, and the place of His sanctuary was cast down. 12 Because of transgression, an army was given over to the horn to oppose the daily sacrifices; and he cast truth down to the ground. He did all this and prospered.

Dan. 8:24 His power shall be mighty, but not by his own power;
He shall destroy fearfully,
And shall prosper and thrive;
He shall destroy the mighty, and also the holy people.
25 “Through his cunning
He shall cause deceit to prosper under his rule;
And he shall exalt himself in his heart.
He shall destroy many in their prosperity.
He shall even rise against the Prince of princes;
But he shall be broken without human means.
26 “And the vision of the evenings and mornings
Which was told is true;
Therefore seal up the vision,
For it refers to many days in the future.”

Dan. 9:24 “Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.
25 “Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.
26 “And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”

Dan. 10:12 Then he said to me, “Do not fear, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart to understand, and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard; and I have come because of your words. 13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia. 14 Now I have come to make you understand what will happen to your people in the latter days, for the vision refers to many days yet to come.”

Dan. 10:19 And he said, “O man greatly beloved, fear not! Peace be to you; be strong, yes, be strong!”

So when he spoke to me I was strengthened, and said, “Let my lord speak, for you have strengthened me.”

Dan. 10:20 Then he said, “Do you know why I have come to you? And now I must return to fight with the prince of Persia; and when I have gone forth, indeed the prince of Greece will come. 21 But I will tell you what is noted in the Scripture of Truth. (No one upholds me against these, except Michael your prince. 1 “Also in the first year of Darius the Mede, I, even I, stood up to confirm and strengthen him.)

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/4/27 17:51Profile
Scroggins
Member



Joined: 2006/4/13
Posts: 129
Dallas, TX

 Re:

Look for the Book, "The Kingdom of the Cults" it is very good with things of this nature in pointing out the flaws and how they have removed Christ from his throne in their views. It covers a large number of "religions" such as, Catholics, Mormans, Jehovas Witnesses etc.. etc..

In Christ,
Scroggins


_________________
Scroggins

 2006/4/27 18:08Profile
Combat_Chuck
Member



Joined: 2006/1/27
Posts: 202


 Re:

I would also suggest checking out [url=waltermartin.org]waltermartin.org[/url]

Walter is with the Lord now, but he was an authoritative teacher when it comes to the cults. He wrote the book [u]Kingdom Of The Cults[/u] which is an excellent reference and research tool. Walter had the entire New Testament memorized in the original greek.


_________________
Combat Chuck

 2006/4/27 19:39Profile
allhavsinned
Member



Joined: 2005/8/1
Posts: 201
North West England

 Re:

A host of good advice above.

All I would like to add is that a few weeks ago an x-JW came to our Bible study. As there was a lot of snow about, there were not many people there so we couldn't do our normal study, so we talked to him for over an hour. He had so many questions and we all answered as best we could.

The point I want to make is this... he was in the JW's for 30 years and he got himself out cos he really wanted to know God. Your friend needs PRAYER, and encouragement when you can, so that she will see that there is a God outside of the organisation who loves her and wants to get to know her.

Keep praying that God will give her rays of light in the darkness so that if she does want to get to know Him, she will see the error herself and look for the Truth.

BTW, Dave (our x-JW) got saved a few weeks later but still has problems. He needs praying for too.


_________________
Ste

 2006/4/27 20:13Profile
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re: Debating with Witnesses

I grew up one of Jehovah's Witnesses. We fell away from the religion in my late teens, and I was saved a few years ago. I must say the religion changes, and as such, it is quite different from what I remember.

I would have to say that arguing and debating the bible is about the worst approach anyone can take with someone like a Jehovah's Witness. They are grounded in a firm belief that they know what the bible says. They are taught basically that any religion other than their own is a work of the Devil. I was afraid to enter a church for many years because I thought it was a place controlled by the Devil.

Instead, any Christians best defense is Christ, the work Christ does in believers. Every Christian has testimonies of how Christ has been at work in their life. We all have answered prayers and much more. What truly speaks to them is the love of Christ in us. Tell them about the real life experiences you have in your relationship with Christ. Tell them about answered prayers. Let them see your joy and peace. Let them see how Christ has changed your life. And most of all, let them feel loved.

This will confound them. They work so hard at being good, and yet, you do it so naturally. They pray continually, but their prayers go unanswered. Despite that they know Jesus died for them, they are still stricken with guilt, and do not know forgiveness.

Then, as a living testament of Christ, they will begin to listen. Maybe they won't tell you, but your words will sink into their heart.

Also, do not ever worry about your skill level. Jesus said,

Luke 21:14-15 (NIV)
14 But make up your mind not to worry beforehand how you will defend yourselves. 15 For I will give you words and wisdom that none of your adversaries will be able to resist or contradict.

In Christ,
Blake


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Blake Kidney

 2006/4/28 0:08Profile





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