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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Lack of prayer ...

I am flatly forever convinced that the single, solitary problem with the saints in this day, in the church, in disputes and conversations, in turmoil and irritation, in tumults and arguments, in bitterness and pride, every evil imagination under the sun and every misrepresentation of [i]The Son[/i] can be put to one thing...

Lack of true, honest, humbling prayer.

Mike Balog

 2006/7/3 9:00Profile

Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Prayer 101

by Chip Brogden


"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to
pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners that they
may be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have already received
their reward" (Matthew 6:5).

Preachers are equally guilty of hypocritical long-windedness. It is
interesting to observe how differently someone prays when standing
upon a platform before others compared to how they pray in other
places. They seem to believe that the spotlight calls for certain
words and phrases to be used that they would not otherwise use. This,
too, is done for the benefit of the listeners. "Oh, he can pray such
powerful prayers!" they exclaim. But this does not mean they are
necessarily powerful with God.

Particularly in a day when prayer meetings, prayer gatherings, prayer
retreats, and prayer warfare is being emphasized, it is important to
understand what the Lord is looking for so we do not fall into a trap
of vanity. The experience of many saints seems to indicate that the
more we pray in private, the less we will pray in public. The words
will be fewer, but they will be far more weighty and valuable. One
brother was so broken before God privately that whenever he stepped
into the pulpit to pray publicly, all he could do was fall over the
lectern and weep, "Oh God!" That is the proper spirit, and how I wish
we had more of this kind of prayer.

Mike Balog

 2006/7/31 7:42Profile

Joined: 2004/7/29
Posts: 204
Jacksonville. Florida


I really Do enjoy the freshness of Chip's thinking....

And reading Leonard Ravenhill...[i]"A man may study because his brain is hungry for knowledge, even Bible knowledge. But he prays because his soul is hungry for God."[/i]

Prayer all comes down to a couple of simple questions...

How hungry are you for the presence of God in your life?

Have you so deadened your 'Holy':-D tastebuds with a counterfit sweetness that you cannot identify the Glory of His intimate communion?

bill schnippert

 2006/7/31 13:41Profile

Joined: 2006/6/7
Posts: 24


Are we praying as Christ did? Do we abide in Him? Are our pleas and spirit the overflow of His spirit and pleas? Does love rule the spirit—perfect love?

I happen to be very fond of EM Bounds and his writings. Personally, I a wait the tugging of HIS,
Spirit to pray for a particular person, or in a particular area, and this is why.

I have in the past and present received requests, such as “Can you pray for me in this area or stand with me in faith for what I am praying for?” I have to say that immediately my respond to them is I will pray first to see if this is God’s will (Peace) before I can come in agreement with, You.

Watchman Nee or Lee on his website has an article on prayer. In this article when mentioning prayer he refers to it as prayer/read. This caught my attention because when you read his word, when you meditate on his word, when you allow his word to have his perfect work in you, you are praying and you are waiting for his divine revelation/answer.

Many have asked me what are you believing God for, in other words what am I asking him for. I don’t ask him for anything materialistic in my life, I just want him and more of him and his will and purposes to be accomplished. I do however stand in the gap on behalf of others, and I love it.

I am seeing my prayers answered and it is wonderful, I say that in a humbled way. It is an honor and a privilege to stand in the gap.

I agree that there are different levels of prayer and that’s the heart beat of God for each and every one of us to reach this level. I believe that the closer we are to God the closer we are to his ear, and the closer we are to his ear, the closer we are to him. His ear is attentive to the prayers of the righteous -- that’s his word. It is your faith that causes things to happen. Jesus said, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you can ask this tree to move and it will obey, (hope I’m quoting it correctly).

Am I a General of intercession, no I am not, but I know where I need to be and I know that he is doing something inside of me, he is in full control. Brothers and Sister I can’t begin to tell you how much I used to struggle in this area, the area of fully surrendering to him, to his Spirit, to this incredible tugging in obedience to what he has wanted me to do and to say. It has hurt me more then it has hurt you. I used to struggle with fear and doubt, fear of the unknown doubt “Is this really you God”?, “God I need to know that this is really you”, and then he confirmed it with a witness that I know it was him, and not me.

Brothers and Sisters I am just clay in his hands literally, right now I am only clay in his hands, Oh if we could stop being afraid and allow God to have full control and to allow him to lead us and to teach us, we are all teachable but are we willing to be taught. God has had to deal with me in this area, because of my character; it has not been easy I know. But I am now in a place where I am willing to surrender whole heartily. God let your will be done. I love God more then anything and his Word!

There is something that no one can ever take away from you and that is his Word, once you grab a hold of God’s word, it will fill you, and it will teach you, it will guide you, and encourage you. It will also rebuke you when need be, and it hurts. But it also encourages and strengthens.

Many of times I have not know how to pray, what to pray for, have grabbed a hold of Gods word because at that time there was no one around that could encourage/help me, he knew what I was going through and gave me a word that brought much healing, deliverance, encouragement and strength.

I can’t quote every word that he gave me, which at this time is good because you should grab a hold of his word yourself and watch to see what he will tell you in prayer.

Many of times I have not know how to pray, what to pray for, and have grabbed a hold of Gods word because at that time there was no one around that could encourage/help me. He knew what I was going through and gave me a word that brought much healing, deliverance, encouragement and strength.

I have quoted my own words to say this;

Had I been physically connected I would not have had to struggle with the emotions/feelings my self. There is something Beautiful about gathering together with the Saints that’s like no other. The UNITY in the Body and in the Spirit in One Accord with One Mind nothing can compare to this or take the place off.

Jesus, said when two or more gather together to pray I am in the midst -- When two or more gather together to pray I am in the midst. Yes this is so true, the power that there is in prayer and Corporate Prayer YOU MUST EXEPIRENCE THIS, things are birthed, people are changed, and problems are solved supernaturally.

I just have to say this right now, you know who you are, and you know the power that lies deep within your soul in the depth of your spirit. You know the authority in which you pray and pull down strong holes; you know that you hold the sickle in your hand. I have heard you and I dare to say that the gift is irrevocable, how long will you continue to have God wait, I need you, they need you, this new generation needs you?

 2006/8/8 14:29Profile

Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Pray!

[url=]In Touch with the Throne [/url]
[i][b]Some Considerations on the Prayer-Life[/b][/i]
[i]by T. Austin-Sparks[/i]

For those so interested, thought I would put this in front if you wish to read ahead.

There is so much I wish to say about this particular effort from Mr. Sparks that it is difficult to start. It may just be me and I recognize the difficulty in making a "Must read" or "[i]This is so vitally important[/i]" type of statement when there are many such things here and the variety of our present circumstances often dictate different needs for specific seasons and visa versa.

So with that bit of qualifying out of the way, I must say that even in reading the first parts of this over the course of a number of days I find so much that cut's across many lines; Everything from the dynamics of this forum, to the matters of prophecy to the upcoming conference in October. Saints, that is all within the first chapter and a bit of the second ... And further, is just the very tip of other extrapolations and considerations.

In the past, especially when the forum itself tends to get a bit agitated, speaking in a very overall sense and not as particular indictment, a plea for slowing down a bit and an attempt or a request for assimilating some very penetrating truths. T. Austin Sparks, to my mind and heart, has the great ability to bring things both 'down to earth' in one fashion while elevating the spiritual importance beyond measure, to it's rightful place. He has a balance and grasp that takes out much of the very [i]controversy[/i] that can be becoming of us, I guess I want to say that it is peaceable in the spirit of explanation even if the content is immensely challenging. If I don't stop short now, I certainly will be off rambling, this has gripped me profoundly and cannot feel but impressed to see if it might do so to others, hoping it would draw out even more thought and discussion on so vital the matter that prayer is to this life we are living.

Hope to just bring it in in small doses and see where it might lead us.

[b]Chapter 1- The Divine Basis of All Acceptable Prayer[/b]

As we contemplate the great ministry of prayer, I think it would be most helpful if at the outset we were reminded of the Divine basis of all acceptable prayer. Before we come to what may be more technical we must recognize the spiritual foundation of prayer, and that has to do with the ingredients and the sacredness of the incense which was to be burnt upon the golden altar referred to in Exodus 30, verse 34 onwards.

It is not my intention to take up these ingredients for exposition, but simply to note that the Lord stipulated certain things for the sweet spices, and then made a very strong statement in relation to them: " shall not make to yourselves according to the composition thereof; it shall be unto thee holy for the Lord. Whosoever shall make like unto that, to smell thereto, shall even be cut off from his people." That is the basis of all acceptable prayer. As we know, the sweet spices, the ingredients of the incense, typify the moral excellencies of the Lord Jesus: His graces, virtues, merits and worthiness. The incense is not the prayers of the saints, but the merit and worthiness of the Lord Jesus put into the prayers, mingled with the prayers, and becoming that which brings the prayers in effectiveness and acceptance to the presence of God. There is completeness here, inasmuch as the ingredients are fourfold: the completeness of the graces and virtues and moral excellencies of Christ. And then, as you notice, salt (which always speaks of preserving things in life) is to be mingled with these other ingredients, and that seems to me to suggest that even the presentation of the moral excellencies of the Lord Jesus is always to be free from merely cold formality, which means death, and must remain a living and vital thing. It is so possible for a contemplation of the Lord Jesus to become a mechanical and formal thing, something which we accept in our minds as necessary and true, so that we come mechanically upon the merits of the Lord Jesus, when the Lord wants the thing to be continuously alive. With every fresh coming to the Lord there should be a fresh appreciation in life of the Lord Jesus. The salt is to keep things from death, to keep them in life, to keep them fresh and to keep them keen, and we are required to have an abiding keenness and aliveness of appreciation of these excellencies of the Lord Jesus. If it is so, then prayer is acceptable and effectual. The salt is not one of the ingredients, but something added in, and that something is that which is incorruptible.

Then we have the very definite stipulation that nothing like this was to be made by man himself or for himself. There was to be no imitation of this, and there was to be no private and personal appropriation of it by man. It was to be held always unto the Lord and to be holy to the Lord, and an infringement of that rule meant death. As we know, on one occasion the offering of false fire resulted in judgment and death. So here we are told that if this thing were made by man, an imitation of it made for himself and for his own personal ends, he would be cut off from among his people. The moral excellencies of the Lord Jesus cannot be imitated. Man cannot have them in himself, and anything feigned is unacceptable to God. There are no excellencies, and there are no glories like those of the Lord Jesus.

Here we have God most definitely and positively saying in effect that there is a uniqueness, an exclusiveness about the character of the Lord Jesus which is unapproachable by man and altogether apart from the very best that man can make of himself. God sees in the Lord Jesus that which is not anywhere else, and for any man to come imitating the merits of the Lord Jesus means death for that man. There is no ground of approach to God in our moral glories, and it is an awful blasphemy to talk about the sacrifice and the laying down of life on the part of men for their fellow-creatures being on a par with the laying down of His life by the Lord Jesus. That is utter blasphemy, and it must come under the most utter judgment of God. No! God sees nothing equal to the moral excellencies of His Son and forbids us to try to bring anything which is an imitation of those, a man-made thing, which does not recognize the uniqueness of the Lord Jesus.

So the ground of all acceptable prayer upon which we approach the Father is that of the moral excellencies and glories, and graces, and virtues, and merits, and worthiness of the Lord Jesus. That is very simple, but it is basic, and we do have to recognize that before we can get anywhere in the matter of prayer.

Mike Balog

 2007/8/19 12:19Profile

Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927


Perhaps just try sitting down like a little child and talking to your Father. He cares. Psalm 103:13-14

Taylor Otwell

 2007/8/19 15:31Profile

Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: In Touch with the Throne ~ Sparks

I had read the first chapter of In Touch With the Throne several months ago, I think someone posted a clip from it here on SI (perhaps it was you Mike). Then I re-read that chapter and devoured the rest of the book also over a few days last week and I too have been greatly affected and feel a deep desire to be a part of a 'Gideon Company' that Mr. Sparks talks about it the fifth chapter, a sifted, fearless company ready for battle. I feel woefully inadequate and yet expectantly hopeful. The things that are impossible with men...

In Christ,


Thought I would bring this over from the other thread that all this started from. Ron (InTheLight) originaly brought it forth, I appologize if I have made this a bit confusing ...

Mike Balog

 2007/8/19 22:44Profile

Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 In Touch with the Throne ~ Sparks

[b]The Five Aspects of Prayer[/b]

Now we are able to go on with the subject of prayer itself. In the first place I want to say a little about the nature of prayer, or that which makes prayer, from its different standpoints. And while there may be many other aspects, I think we may say that prayer has five main aspects: communion, submission, petition, co-operation and conflict. Prayer is each one of these, and prayer in its fullness requires or involves all of them.

[b]Prayer as Communion[/b]

Firstly, prayer is communion, prayer is fellowship, prayer is love opening the heart to God, and that is the foundation of all true forms of prayer. We may liken it to the two main activities of our human bodies. When we speak of the activities of these physical bodies we speak of what is organic, and then of what is functional. Organic trouble is a very serious thing, but a functional trouble may not be so serious, and prayer as communion takes the place of the organic in our bodies. One part of our organic make-up is our breathing, which we call respiration. Now, you never stop to think about that! You never reason that out and say: 'Shall I take another breath?' 'Shall I breathe?' or 'How many more breaths shall I take today?' You may do that over a meal, for that is functional, but you never do it over your respiration, for that is organic. You may discuss whether you will walk, or talk, or think, and you may tell yourself that you will stop thinking, or walking, or talking. That is functional. It is controlled and deliberate, but you do not do that over your breathing. That goes on. But if your respiration should give out, your walking, talking and thinking would give out, so that respiration is basic to everything else.

And prayer as communion is in the spiritual life what respiration is in the physical. Communion with God is a sustained thing, a thing like breathing which goes on, or should go on. It differs altogether from those periodical functional activities such as feeding. Respiration is quite involuntary and not just deliberate. We may call it a habit, and a habit is something which easily eludes the full consciousness of the one who is addicted to it. We do things habitually without being aware at the time that we are doing them. When a habit is fully formed it is just an unconscious part of our procedure, and communion with God is that - something that goes on. Prayer as communion is just that: we are in touch with the Lord and we spontaneously and involuntarily open our heart to Him. That is the first foundational thing in all prayer, and that is something to which we shall have to give attention. While we never discuss the question as to whether we will breathe or not, there is such a thing as developing right breathing, and in this sense we shall have to give attention to our breathing.

I think that of all the people I ever met who exemplified this organic life in fellowship with God, Dr. F. B. Meyer was outstanding. It did not matter where he was or what the circumstances were, he would suddenly stop, perhaps in dictating a letter, or in a conversation, or in a business meeting, and just say: 'Stop a minute!' and he prayed. And that was his habit in life. He seemed at any moment to be in touch with the Lord. It was like breathing to him, and I believe it represented one of the secrets of the fruitfulness of his life and the value of his judgment in the things of the Lord. Only those who had close touch with him, especially in difficult executive meetings, knew the value of that spiritual judgment which he brought to bear upon situations, and it seemed to come to him just like that, as out from the Lord.

Well, that is prayer in its foundation. It is communion, it is fellowship and the spontaneous opening of the heart to the Lord. It is not the whole range of prayer, but it is life lived at the back of all deliberate activities, life in touch with the Lord, and it is a very, very valuable thing. All other prayer is so much more effective if we have that. It is so different from life being just a matter of prayer in emergencies, and emergencies are very often much more critical than they need be because we have to find our way back to God instead of being there. I think that very often the Lord allows emergencies to come to us in order to restore fellowship with Himself which has been lost, and in the Lord's mind the abiding fruit of such an emergency is that we should not lose that fellowship again. We should keep hold of it.

[b]Prayer as Submission[/b]

Then, secondly, prayer is submission, and here we must be aware of the possibility of a contradiction in terms. Prayer is submission. Passive inaction in what is called trust is not prayer. We have heard people speak of trust, which for them means just passivity and inaction, but it is not prayer. Submission is always active, not passive. Submission always involves the will; it does not dismiss the will. Now carefully keep hold of that. Many people think that just trustfully leaning on the Lord is submission, and their address to the Lord takes its character from such a state, but that is not prayer. Unquestioning acquiescence in things as we find them is not submission, and it is not prayer. Submission means getting into line with the Divine mind. That may mean conflict, it will almost invariably mean action, and it will bring in the volition. Prayer, from whatever standpoint you regard it, is always positive. It is never passive. Trust is another thing and does not come into the realm of prayer. Faith comes into the realm of prayer, but faith is always an active thing and never a passive thing. Faith may require a battle, and it very often does, to get to a place of rest, but the 'rest of faith' is not what we have called unquestioning acquiescence. The 'rest of faith' means that the last stage of adjustment to the Divine mind has been reached. Submission is not merely the suppression of desire, but the bringing of desire into line with the Divine will, and, if needs be, changing desire. Desire may be a very strong thing, a mighty propelling force, but a propelling force ought to be so much under control that it can be switched into the direction of an arresting force. To propel a train, a tremendous amount of power and force is required, but a modern train is so arranged that the mighty propelling force which carries it forward can in a moment be switched to its brakes to pull it to a halt. In prayer, where submission is in view, that is very often what has to be done. That strength of desire has to be arrested in one direction and brought into another direction, perhaps from propelling us forward to bringing us to a standstill in the will of God. That is submission. You see, submission is an active thing, a positive thing.

I anticipate that there will be many questions in this connection, but it is very important to recognize that prayer in its second aspect is submission, which is a positive thing. It is not just collapsing before God and saying: 'Well, I trust that everything will turn out all right. I just acquiesce in things as they are and leave it with the Lord.' Submission is coming positively into line with God's will, God's desire and God's mind. That very often means the deepest conflict, and sometimes heartbreak, but it is necessary. We will touch that again later.

[b]Prayer as Petition[/b]

Thirdly, prayer is petition, request, or asking. That is all the same, whichever word you prefer. Here we touch what is perhaps the major aspect in the activity of prayer. Undoubtedly it has the largest place in Scripture, and it really defines the meaning of the word 'prayer.'

From a scriptural standpoint prayer is rightly taken to mean petition, and if you go through the Word of God you will find that prayer represents petition in an overwhelming measure. Perhaps we do not need very much argument along that line to prove or persuade that it is so, but I am quite sure that before we are through we shall see that a note of emphasis is necessary, for, after all, our main problems arise in the direction of asking, in the realm of petition. We shall go on praying, of course, and we shall go on asking, in spite of them all. I trust that we shall, but it is as well for us to have the ground well laid for petition, for request, for asking, and for us to recognize clearly, and be fully assured, that there is an objective efficacy in prayer. I do not doubt but that all of us at some time or other have a little catch in our prayers of request and asking because of a little mental something that comes in and undermines certainty. What I am talking about is the objective efficacy of prayer, that is, prayer which has power to change things objectively and not merely have an influence upon us inwardly, prayer which brings answers outside of ourselves. Petition, request, asking, as set over against all false arguments, such as: Divine omniscience makes prayer unnecessary; God knows everything; He knows what He will do, how He will do it, and He knows the end of all things from the beginning, so why pray? Or again: Divine goodness makes prayer superfluous. God is good, compassionate, merciful and longsuffering. He will only do the best, for He is love, so prayer is superfluous. Why petition the Lord to do good, to be gracious, to show kindness and to do the best for us? Why not trust the goodness of God? Prayer is superfluous. Or once more: Divine foreordination makes prayer useless. If God has settled things eternally, predestination holds good, so it is useless to pray. Or, running alongside of that, Divine sovereignty - the fact that God rules and overrules, He is in the throne of government and has all things in His hands and in His power - makes prayer lack of faith. Why ask, why pray, why petition, why request, when all things are in God's hands and He is ruling and over-ruling, governing and directing in His sovereignty? Once more: the Divine vastness of law and purpose makes prayer presumptuous. It is presumption to ask God to change things when He has fixed everything according to His eternal laws and things are moving in correspondence with a set order. It is presumption to expect the Lord to go out of His order, or to ask Him to do so. (See chapter 4.)

Now, you may not have put things like that, and those questions may never have arisen in your minds in that way, but I venture to suggest that, whether those words have been in your mind or not, whether you have put things like that or not, what is contained in them has from time to time crept subtly into your prayer-life, has affected it and taken some of the grip out of it. When you have been praying an indefinable something has crept in: 'Well, the Lord knows what He will do so why should I beseech Him? The Lord is good and gracious, so why should I ask Him? The Lord knows the end from the beginning, so why should I not just trust Him? The Lord's purposes are fixed, so why should I begin to wrestle with Him to change things? He will work out His purpose and He is of set mind, so who can change Him?' Prayer is affected, if not by the actual framing of the language mentally, by that sense of contradiction which comes in. All these things creep into the mind or heart and have a tendency to deter or weaken in the matter of prayer, and we have to deal with these more fully as we go on. We must recognize that the modernism of our time does set aside the objective efficacy of prayer and only gives to it the place of a subjective value, that is, its salutary influence upon the one who prays in making a change of, perhaps, demeanour, or mind, or reason, by certain qualities of reverence and such like.

Before we take up some of these things more fully, let me say that there are two things to bear in mind always in petitional prayer. The first is the basic need of the other two aspects, communion and submission. For petitional prayer, in which, after all that I have said, we believe, and with which, after all, we shall go on, nevertheless the basic need is communion with the Lord so that prayer does not resolve itself into merely asking God for things, but comes out of a heart-fellowship with Him. And it needs submission, so that our petitions are not for our own ends or personal desires, but, having been brought by submission into line with the Divine will, are based upon oneness with the mind and will of God. You will find that I am only putting in another way what is made perfectly clear in the Word of God, namely: "If you shall ask anything according to His will." That is submission.

Then the other thing to bear in mind in petitional prayer is that, in view of all the mental difficulties which I have mentioned, it becomes pre-eminently an act of faith. It is these mental difficulties which very largely make petitional prayer an act of faith. Yes, argue if you will along all these lines, about the sovereignty of God, and predestination, and so on; nevertheless, we believe that God will change things. In spite of all the arguments which would undercut and weaken prayer, we are going on asking. That makes petitional prayer pre-eminently an act of faith. You may say that is a very cheap way of getting out of it. Well, we have not finished yet, but that is the conclusion at which we have to arrive. We do not want to get out of this cheaply.

[b]Prayer as Co-operation[/b]

There are yet two other aspects of prayer, one of which we will deal with in this chapter, and the other we will leave for later.

The fourth aspect is co-operation, and this is the governing object of prayer. It gets behind everything else and will set us right as to praying and to prayer in all its aspects. Communion, submission, petition and conflict are all adjusted and set right when we recognize that prayer is co-operation, for all these other aspects and phases of prayer are for co-operation. Co-operation is the motive, the truth, the life, the liberty, the power and the glory of prayer. The motive of prayer is co-operation with God. What prayer is in truth is cooperation with God. To have life in prayer we have to recognize that it is co-operation with God, and we get life when prayer is entered into as co-operation with God. If we are not in co-operation with God we may be sure that we shall have no life in prayer. If we are really cooperating with God we shall know we have life in prayer.

Liberty in prayer comes along the line of co-operation with God, and it is not until we get that adjustment, that coming into line with God's purpose, that we 'get through,' as we say. Immediately we get into line with the purpose of God and actively co-operate, then we get movement and there is liberty.

In the same way the power of prayer is related to co-operation with God. Co-operation with God is power in prayer. Think of Elijah, and others, coming into co-operation with God and the resulting effectiveness of their prayer. What is accomplished!

And then the glory of prayer. Prayer becomes a glorious thing when it is really intelligently and spiritually a matter of co-operation with God. Co-operation eliminates selfishness and everything that is merely personal. That is one of its chief values, for it means that prayer should bring us into the Divine plan, the Divine method, the Divine time and the Divine spirit, or disposition. All these things are important - not only to know the plan, but God's method of fulfilling His plan; not only to know the plan and the method, but to come into God's time; and then, not only to be on that executive side, but to be in a right spirit for the thing when the time has come, to do it in the Spirit, in the demeanor of the Lord. All that is co-operation. We may be in a right thing, in a right way, at a right time, and yet not be helping the Lord because we are in a wrong spirit that is not the spirit of the Lord. Prayer in co-operation with God is to make adjustment in all these matters.

There are three factors which are essential to prayer. Firstly, desire; secondly, faith; and thirdly, volition, or will. I just make that statement and leave it as it is.

Then when we put together communion, submission and petition we have co-operation. When they go together and are adjusted to each other, in line with each other and with the Divine will, then you have co-operation.

Perhaps, in closing that phase of things, we might remind ourselves that very often the Lord calls for an initial exercise on our part before He comes in on His side. He very often requires an initiative from us in the matter of desire, of faith and of volition. It is like the drop of water that has to be put into the old-fashioned pump to produce the stream, and you do not get the flow until you have given the pump something. And the Lord just calls for that on our part which may be, in comparison, a very little, but which makes it possible for Him to come out in His fullness. Very often prayer at its commencement represents exercise of will, faith and desire on our part, and then the Lord responds to that. It may be that the Lord does not respond until He sees the desire put into faith's deliberate action of the will to get through to Him. There is very often a good deal of discouragement met with at the commencement of prayer, and the danger is that we should give up too soon because we do not seem to be getting anywhere. The Lord is just asking for that drop of water to start the flow!

So far we have only mentioned four aspects of prayer, and have referred to some of the difficulties which arise in connection with them, but we have not cleared up those difficulties. We shall give two whole chapters to the fifth aspect of prayer, and then proceed to deal at greater length with the difficulties by way of seeking to answer them. These difficulties, however, are really only in the realm of the mind, and while they may sometimes get in the way of faith, faith will triumph over them, and leave behind a history of mighty things in spite of them.

Mike Balog

 2007/8/19 23:50Profile

 Re: In Touch with the Throne ~ Sparks

crsschk wrote:

I feel woefully inadequate and yet expectantly hopeful.

Twice that word has come up since logging back on (The Prodigal Bomber), absoultely the word that has gripped me over these ensuing days ...

Gary, hope you might read through this small book and give us your thought's on the other thread.

Hope I didn't confuse matters by doing it in this manner ...

How many People struggle with Prayer , Prayer 101

[color=CC0033]quote:from crsschk How many People struggle with Prayer: Even the Bible may become a hindrance. Light can blind. Our Lord reproached the religious teachers of His day because their misuse of the Scriptures blinded their minds. Stepping-stones may become slipping-stones, and even a corner stone may be a stumblingblock. In all questions of the soul each must find help where he can. [/color]

moe_mac wrote answer to what I thought was in error of the Word of GOD on Sunday afternoon:
The Pharisees did not have the Holy Spirit to guide them. The Holy Spirit did not come for believers until Pentecost only for a few choosen Jewish people. As a matter of fact, if it very obvious to me, the Pharisees actually knew very little of the Old Testament by memory. They didn't even realize it when Jesus read from Isaiah and fulfilled the prophecy in the Temple.
The Holy Spirit living inside of a child of God will give a desire for a conversation with their Lord and King, if indeed HE is King and Lord. Everyone wants a savour, but some only want saved but refuse the King and Lord of their life. That is why Jesus told the pharisees, you honor me with your lips, but your hearts are far from me. Where there a is desire, an action will occur also.
However we as Christians can quench the Holy Spirit and refuse to submit HIS call and communicate to HIM when HIS spirit prompts our hearts to do so. Prayer is not something we learn, but through HIS WORD we learn that it is reverent, sincere, humble ordianary communication with a HOLY GOD from a sinner saved by grace through faith in our Jesus Christ because of HIS rich mercy and love for us. And will have a result unto good works, not works to be saved.

moe_mac wrote Sunday night 08/19/08 11:30 central time. after I could not locate the article without doing a search to ask questions:

What I am confused about is the part I copied and pasted from your article I cannot find now. It may be there somewhere but I can't find it and the whole article has been moved and I had to do an advanced search to even find this comment and answer from you. What happened. Where is the article that contains the information in red letters I copied from your article? If I am in error on this I apoligize in advance. If you edited it for some reason that's ok, but it was there this afternoon. Just trying to get on the same page and find out what happened? When I checked the thread tonight it was moved rearranged and I had to do an advance search and recopy what I posted earlier in the day??????????

 2007/8/20 1:04

Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: In Touch with the Throne ~ Sparks

What I am confused about is the part I copied and pasted from your article I cannot find now. It may be there somewhere but I can't find it and the whole article has been moved and I had to do an advanced search to even find this comment and answer from you. What happened. Where is the article that contains the information in red letters I copied from your article? If I am in error on this I apologize in advance. If you edited it for some reason that's ok, but it was there this afternoon. Just trying to get on the same page and find out what happened? When I checked the thread tonight it was moved rearranged and I had to do an advance search and recopy what I posted earlier in the day??????????

Hi Gary, had the same difficulty, apologize for all this mixing things up here. The quote you have in red there was from the other thread;

[url=]The Word of God and Prayer ~ Chadwick[/url]

And was from Samuel Chadwick, look under the subheading [b]Aids To Devotion[/b], the last paragraph in that section is that which you have quoted. Would have to go back and take it all in as to the context there.

So it was not edited or anything, just made a bit more confusing since we went from Chadwick to Sparks and the decision to move the Sparks chapters over to this thread on prayer. My apologies once again.


To this matter at hand ... namely this book and these chapters, I am finding even my earlier thoughts about [i]not[/i] making this a must read ill-advised.

This may be the most important thing any of us could get down into the marrow of our being. It is [i]still[/i] difficult to start where I had mind to earlier this morning and that was due to finding myself right smack in the very battle of chapter 3. Much could be said and am short on time, but what a time it has been this very morning, precisely the assault and tactics, things I have known before and experienced but here it is now 6:30am my time and to think this all started somewhere in the neighborhood of 3:00am ... It could have been a half hour for all I know or so it seemed, strange way of putting it, but my what an incredible thing, the sheer audacity sometimes ...

Mike Balog

 2007/8/20 9:35Profile

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