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 Re:

Joshua, You left out Sentry's first sentence over your quote where he said, "I tend to agree with "YeshuaIsMyGd""

You see, he agrees with your post. That was more than most people would say.

Anyhow .... we are getting our "gifts" jumbled up here though.

When a person is New to being used in a gift ... our Merciful God, starts them off slowly most of the time.

He'll teach us His Still Small Voice through allowing things, like Sentry mentioned to happen to us "personally", and then, once we get the feel for what is from God, flesh or the devil, and we've proved God's voice from all other voices or "movings", or whatever you want to call His gifts or how they work .... then later He'll move us into outer ministering with that gift ... as you said, "for others".

You don't jump into being used in a big way in the Body, until God has taken you through the growth process it takes to discern "good from evil" and "Him from Counterfeits".

So, what he is saying is not wrong, in that he is not being given discernment presently and possibly being used of God in that gift.

Again, the gifts of 1 Corth 12 are Not Resident gifts. So it's not a "calling" as you called it.

A person who is "regularly" used in discernment and word of wisdom or knowledge gifts, more than likely has "the calling" as Prophet or Pastor. Mind you that I said "regularly used".

Also, none of us are forgeting that discernment in and of itself is necessary for the whole Body to pray for ... as much as faith.

The 9 gifts of 1 Corth 12 are for every and any member of the Body to be used in 'whenever God sees fit', but they do not reside in the person.
People can be used in the gift of healing, but to say you have a "Healing Ministry" is really not Scriptural. If that were so we'd have a "Miracle man" and "the Word of Knowledge man".

We only have the Book of Acts, to judge these things. Paul was used in probably all 9 at one time or another and of course Jesus was too. But no one of these 9 turns into "a ministry of" unless it fits into one of the other two 'Resident' Gift areas in Eph and Rom..

Eph 4:11 are "calling" gifts - apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers.
These 5 gifts are also called 'Ministerial Gifts'. (Resident/calling gifts)

1 Corth 12 ,,, those 9 gifts are 'Manifestational Gifts' (non-resident)

And these next in Rom 12 are called 'Motivational Gifts'. They also are resident and "motivate" the person by the feeling of their own "burden" for these specific gifts.
Like a giver, sees "giving" as what motivates most of what they do. etc.

Romans 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether [u]prophecy[/u], let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;
Rom 12:7 Or [u]ministry[/u], let us wait on our ministering: or he that [u]teacheth[/u], on teaching;
Rom 12:8 Or he that exhorteth, on [u]exhortation[/u]: he that [u]giveth[/u], let him do it with simplicity; he that [u]ruleth[/u], with diligence; he that showeth [u]mercy[/u], with cheerfulness.


But prophet jimp says I talk too much, so I better end it here.
:-P

 2006/2/11 0:15
brentw
Member



Joined: 2005/12/14
Posts: 440
Ohio

 Re:

I'm going to say this in a different way...How do we deal with those who we really sense or discern that are not saved and they really think they are.
The Bible does say the Spirit beareth witness. Or is it discerment when we hear them talk about everything but Jesus. They dont read the Word. I think we can safely say if they talk about everything but Jesus theres no hunger for the Word. Do we just add it all up?? Even though their at church alot?? We all deal with people like this at church....do we just let them slip by and go to hell?? What other ways do we discern this???


_________________
Brent

 2006/2/11 11:15Profile
Nellie
Member



Joined: 2004/4/5
Posts: 952


 Re:

I have found in my walk with God that He will back up the gift of decernment with His Word.
I know when that man came into our Church and was telling people all kinds of things, that He showed me from the Holy Scriptures that He wasn't real.
If we, as God's Children will ask Him, He will show us, but it always will be backed up by the Word of God
There are way too many people going around saying, "Thus said the Word of God,", and God didn't send them, they are wolves in sheep's clothing.
God will confirm His Word to His Children.

God Bless
Nellie

 2006/2/11 11:35Profile
Sentry
Member



Joined: 2004/2/5
Posts: 119
West Monroe, Louisiana

 Re:

Quote:

YeshuaIsMyGd wrote:
Blessings Mark, my name is joshua 8-)

I think your idea on the gift of discernment is a little off. Because, it's almost saying 'those who have a prophetic word, is to be silent.' likewise 'those who have a word of healing for someone, to be silent.' And brother, I'm sorry but it's not biblical.

BUT, at the same time. What you do is safer.




Hi Joshua,

Well, my wife would defintely say that I'm a little off :-P

I see what you're saying...and yes...we should share what God has put in our hearts.
However, only with careful consideration and wisdom I believe.

I guess my main point was..that so many people say way too much..and let's just face it...they do more harm than good...

I like James' advice, although this is not talking about discernment..it is good advice.

Jam 1:19 [i]"Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:" [/i]

In Christ,

Mark


_________________
Mark

 2006/2/11 14:08Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4529


 Re:

Hi YeshuaIsMyGD...!

Quote:
I think your idea on the gift of discernment is a little off. Because, it's almost saying 'those who have a prophetic word, is to be silent.' likewise 'those who have a word of healing for someone, to be silent.' And brother, I'm sorry but it's not biblical.

I'm not certain what Mark meant with his post. However, there is an extreme and immediate danger in the Church with men and women who go around proclaiming their "discernment." Some of the most well-meaning and doctrinally sound charismatic and pentecostal fellowships sometime have believers that proclaim to be endowed with a "supernatural gift" where they "can tell" who is really a believer or not. Most of the time, I don't think that God shares such information with them. Why? Because of the way that they often handle such "discernment." Often, they feel like they are "defenders of the faith" and publically proclaim what they feel that they have "heard" or "discerned."

Why can't such "discernment-gifted" believers just talk to a brother/sister privately (like the Word says) and speak to him/her about what they "think" that they have "discerned?" When their "discernment" (or sometimes, "feelings" or "suspicions") are correct -- they offer it as proof to others of their gift. But when they are wrong, they just admit that they are human and prone to mistakes (rather than admitting that they really "missed it" badly. And sadly, they forget to see the damage that such false "discernment" can cause.

Sadly, I must admit that I have [u]rarely[/u] encountered a person that publically claimed to have such a "gift" that actually did (or did not "misuse" it). It is often this way with many of the gifts. If a person is gifted with "healing," then why aren't they in the hospital or hospices? If a person is gifted with "prophecy," then why do they prophecy simple, generic words (that could apply to anything) rather than specific, heart-cutting truths? And why do they only prophecy to fellow believers? Instead, believers often settle for reputation instead of actual substance. Pentecostals and Charismatic believers would often rather place such "gifted" men/women on television. It reminds me of the "parable of the fishless fisherman." Is a person really a fisherman if they never really go fishing?

I do believe in the gifts -- including the ability to "discern between spirits." I have seen some things (and experienced things) that would be almost unbelievable if written in the message boards. But I often keep these things in my heart and ponder them before the Lord, rather than shouting such experiences from the rooftop.

Are there discerners in the Church today? Of course. But like the rest of the gifts, I believe that there are far more people that claim to be endowed than actually practice them. I would pray that God would raise up thousands of humble men and women -- full of meekness and sincerity -- that would able to use the gifts as I Corinthians 12 intended. Instead, our Churches seem to be filled with men and women of reputation, that either fail in using the gift properly -- or that do not have the gift at all.

:-(


_________________
Christopher

 2006/2/11 15:24Profile
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi,iam going to let those with the gift of discernment judge this but there is no gift of discernment.it is the gift of discernings of spirits because we wrestle NOT against flesh and blood but against spiritual wickedness in high places;demonic activity.if you are judging people you are not judging spirits.... having the gift of gab means you are well spoken.. jimp

 2006/2/11 15:40Profile









 Re:


I beleive that a person can have this gift but still have the tendency to get into the flesh if they are not careful.And lets just face it, there are some really nutty people out there so we have to be careful.We have to wear our armour even when were in church.We have to really gaurd our hearts because some christians can just be really mean.I don't even know how to decifer a christian from a nonchristian anymore in church unless I use discernment.I can't always say "he's a christian" or "she's a christian" but I just know that there are certain people that I am kind to but I just don't want to be around them.I want to be around people that pull me closer to Him not pull me down.




 2006/2/11 15:57









 Re:

First off. I love you all. (nothing 'bad' is coming...well kinda)

Annie. Mark's opening statement was "I agree with you josh" but then the body of what he said was totally different.

Mark, thanks for showing me 'exactually' what you meant by your statement.

"I see what you're saying...and yes...we should share what God has put in our hearts.
However, only with careful consideration and wisdom I believe.
I guess my main point was..that so many people say way too much..and let's just face it...they do more harm than good..."

Brent asked:

Quote:
How do we deal with those who we really sense or discern that are not saved and they really think they are?



First and foremost,

Nellie was on the money.
Quote:
I have found in my walk with God that He will back up the gift of decernment with His Word.



But now, if you have a 'sight' into someone's life and they are a 'false brethern'. And YOU KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW IS 100% true. You need to DEAL with this person IN LOVE. Rebuke them. If your not in love, your nothing more than a rambling condemning bible-thumper.(not a disciple) But if your in love, that could correct/rebuke them in such a way, they 'come back' or 'come' to Christ for the first time.

Okay.. Chris says (i'm going to answer every stance you have.):
Quote:
Most of the time, I don't think that God shares such information with them.



I beg to differ. ;-)

Quote:
Why can't such "discernment-gifted" believers just talk to a brother/sister privately (like the Word says) and speak to him/her about what they "think" that they have "discerned?"



I do that but not exactually in a 'private' setting, depending on 'what was seen'. But where does it say we need to 'privatly' discuss something discerned?


When their "discernment" (or sometimes, "feelings" or "suspicions") are correct -- they offer it as proof to others of their gift. But when they are wrong, they just admit that they are human and prone to mistakes (rather than admitting that they really "missed it" badly. And sadly, they forget to see the damage that such false "discernment" can cause.


I think, you've seen the false too much. I've seen SOME false. But, as it seems, not as much as you.

If any of you hung out with me and my buddies. You'd be blown away. Because we walk in the supernatural. We don't see no 'dead being raised' cause none of us have the faith for that, but we walk in something that is GREATER than us. And none of us take any credit. EVERY time something happens FROM GOD, we give GOD the glory. I.e. "Wow, Look at what Jesus did through me". "I can't believe Jesus just casted that demon out!"
etc.

Quote:
Sadly, I must admit that I have rarely encountered a person that publically claimed to have such a "gift" that actually did (or did not "misuse" it). It is often this way with many of the gifts. If a person is gifted with "healing," then why aren't they in the hospital or hospices? If a person is gifted with "prophecy," then why do they prophecy simple, generic words (that could apply to anything) rather than specific, heart-cutting truths? And why do they only prophecy to fellow believers? Instead, believers often settle for reputation instead of actual substance. Pentecostals and Charismatic believers would often rather place such "gifted" men/women on television.



What you just said IS MY HEART. I've had such a personal revelation of God's power, when I see 'pentacostal/charasmatics' say they have this or that. And see no fruit. I die inside.

Pentacost didn't happen for us to have a good time, it happened so that the world would see Him through His power.

Quote:
Instead, our Churches seem to be filled with men and women of reputation, that either fail in using the gift properly -- or that do not have the gift at all.



Sad, but very true.


Jimp says:
Quote:
hi,iam going to let those with the gift of discernment judge this but there is no gift of discernment.it is the gift of discernings of spirits because we wrestle NOT against flesh and blood but against spiritual wickedness in high places



[url=http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=discern&version1=49&searchtype=all&limit=none&wholewordsonly=no]Discern[/url] This is all the verses with 'discern' in it.

Discerning is connected with: Knowledge, Wisdom, Judgement, 'seeing' from those verses.

Discernment is something that 'tests' something and that 'something' either passes or fails. 1 John 4:1

Example: One day I was up late at night and saw this preacher preaching. (Randomly going through all the channels) And I stopped, IMMEDIATLY I wanted to smash my T.V. (Sounds like rage huh?) I 'saw' into this man. I saw the LIES, DECEPTION, YUKKY-ness coming out of this man. I was like 'how in the world could someone be of the devil and try to lead the sheep astray?'.

A month later, I found out that. That man stole the church's money a while back, disappeared and now has 're-appeared'. I never knew anything about this man. But God inclined my spirit about this. I had no knowledge, but the knowledge backed it up.

Oh, and please, jimp. define 'gift of discerning of spirits' and 'gift of discernment'. Cause in my book they are the same thing.

Blessings all.

 2006/2/11 19:10









 Re:

My Joshua, I hope you're not accused of "talking too much".

Anyhow, I'll have to take this just one step further.

27 years ago, in an Assembly of God Bible College, there were Professors there, All of which were former Missionaries and All of which, Never taught "THE WORD OF GOD" ... without teaching it from the Greek.

:-(


I'm sorry I've felt I had to say that. But that's how we were taught about the gifts and every other subject in His Word.

We had to Major in Greek in order to speak at all, in some callings. And Discernment was a high priority when they were at the helm, because of all the abuses they had seen by their ripe old age and the different countries they ministered in, that had so much demonic, etc. activity.

Chris, your post was good again. God Bless you.


All the Best to all.

 2006/2/11 20:02
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, who said i am correct in my posts? i have been wrong so much in my life, why should i claim infalability? of spirits? of people?? seemed easy to me.jimp gift of gab: the ability to cmmunicate well.use the gift...

 2006/2/11 20:13Profile





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