| Re: Must we sin?|
Firstly, To the S.I comunity I have read every thread posted in regards to the original post. I would like you all to know that this question was not rhetorical on my part and that your efforts are much appreciated.
Secondly, At the risk of seeming to want this thread to go on endlessly, I pose a question in regards to (Hebrews 6:1
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God)
Do you wake up each morning with the need to convince yourself that "God is real" or do you struggle daily with merely beliving in God? If not then why would you need to repent constantly?
are not these the very Princples( basics )of the faith?
| 2006/2/1 12:14||Profile|
THERES ONLY ONE MAN THAT SATAN CANNOT CAUSE TO SIN AND THATS A DEAD ONE!!!!
...AND WE CAN GIVE ALL THE GLORY TO JESUS BECAUSE ONLY THROUGH HIS DEATH WAS HIS LIFE PERFECTED IN US!!!PRAISE THE LORD!!!
...HOW SATAN HATES THIS TRUTH!!!
| 2006/2/1 12:44|
New England USA
It seems to me that many who are in the "no sin camp" seem to think that I am advocating sin. I just want to state for the record that that is totally NOT THE CASE! I am the first big mouth out there to preach Holiness at all cost!! The need to seperate ourselves from the world and forsake everything in it!! I have done this. I don't watch tv, I don't go to the movies, I don't even listen to christian music anymore. I am down to 2 cd's... Keith Green and Kelly Wilkerson.
I raise my children this way too. I spend my days in the Word and reading authors like T Austin Sparks. My downtime is on this site listening to sermons and writing teachings. So I totally get it, BUT I am still a sinner!
God is not impressed with the fact that I live my life this way either!! The only thing that the Father is impressed with when He looks upon me is the Blood of Christ. But my soul rejoices when I choose to live this way because I am not weighed down by the burden of sin.
So I do consider myself to live a holy life, but I still sin. And I still need to come to Jesus everyday and allow Him to examine my heart. We are all bent on backslidding!! We are not even aware of the deceipt in our own hearts or the intent of our "good works" unless the Lord reveal it to us.
| 2006/2/1 15:34||Profile|
tinluke, if anyone makes you feel like you are advocating sin, they are what God called Pharisees.
The ONLY group that Jesus [u]called names[/u], while He was here in the flesh.
'Chuck' hit it on this previous page and I dare anyone to prove this differently by that vulgar practice of just making their own list of what "they" consider "sins".
Sin IS MISSING THE MARK and the Mark is Rom 8:29, Gal 4:19 ... The actual Image of Christ.
Not just the cessation of outward things or whatever people narrow "sins" down to, in their own puny thinking, but sin is anything that is not in or of The Image of Christ Himself.
That is "the goal" of the Holy Spirit inside of us ... that by our Cooperative fellowship with Him, that we would come into His very Image.
Anything done in our own strength is sin also ... Romans 8 again and Galatians 5.
If anyone's preaching the Sinless Perfection Teaching on here ... I advise they take heed, lest they fall.
I don't know if someone is or not, because I haven't read this whole thread ... but if someone is, then they are narrow minded regarding the Scriptures and don't know the definition of "sin".
Who here does EVERYTHING THAT JESUS WOULD BE DOING IF HE WERE TRULY LIVING INSIDE OF YOU ?
But that's the "mark" and what we're to aim for and not just talk.
"Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."
Just reading All of James ought to straighten us out some and show us how far we are from "the goal".
Or Matthew 25, Etc. etc.
It's our puny definition of "sin" that has made Christianity as ineffective in this world as it has become in the last 50 years or so.
The Lord won't bless Pharisiticalism.
Phi 3:4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
Phi 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Phi 3:6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Phi 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
Phi 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
Phi 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Phi 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Phi 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Phi 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Phi 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Phi 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Love 1st ... right ?
| 2006/2/1 16:14|
I only brought up television because it is a common problem for most christians.I have a television set but I rarely watch it.The only thing I watch is the news because I don't like the commercials ect... now I just get the news off the internet.
I believe in sinless perfection.Let me just say that God never throws the whole ball of wax at you.We are being perfected little by little.You have to carry your cross constantly.Not put it down and than pick it back up.That is what I call selective sinning,which is NOT self denial.
Isn't that what the Revival Hymn is all about??? It makes a good sermon but how many will apply it and how many will just applaud it?
| 2006/2/1 16:32|
Can somebody tell me why, that whenever "missing the 'mark', which is the exact Image of Christ" is brought up, it is always passed over and the threads or conversation always go right back to this "sin" and that ?
Are we posting His Word in vain and prefer to hear our own words instead ?
I don't know, but it's happened every where I've heard this doctrine spoken on, for as many years back as I can remember.
Puzzled & Troubled.
| 2006/2/1 17:08|
New England USA
PHEW!! This thread has worn me out! I've been thinking and praying about it for 2 days now! I really love all of my brothers and sisters in Christ. None of us have all the answears, but thank God we know the ONE who does! Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. Never grow weary of seeking His face.
| 2006/2/1 17:25||Profile|
Whilst I fully appreciate your point here and perhaps I am thinking of slightly less obvious sins but I think this could cause some people who are not hypocritical and false to come under unnecessary condemnation. I think it is worth taking into account that although we never need to sin we sometimes do and it is more likely to happen when we are not amongst the rest of the church as we are easier targets when we are on our own or perhaps have made a mistake and got into a silly situation. I think the devil is a coward and tries to 'pick people off' whilst they are alone and vunerable rather than in the company of God's people so I don't think that everyone who sometimes falls down either in some private way or just not in front of the church is necessarily a hypocrit. I am not syaing that I think that this is always the case and I am not completely trying to argue the point that you are making. It also says confess your faults one to another not your specific sins. I am also not saying that it is not possible to withstand sin in private as I totally think it is and I get your point about 'blaming our flesh' when we had a choice.
Good point. I hope no one misunderstands me. Fellowship with the brothers does encourage and help us to stay from sin.
MeAgain, and others,
The argument seems to me to be going like this:
It is as if someone is telling us to go to the moon. And those who are against the idea that we can make it to the moon are saying "You do not understand how far and high the moon is! You do not understand all of the minute details that it would take to get there, and all of the engineering troubles that must be overcome before we undertake this. You must be ignorant, and you must be proud to think that you can actually go there."
And the ones who are promoting it are saying "Yes, but we have been given a teleporter and spacesuits. All we must do is push this button. We didnt create the teleporter or the suits. But they have been given to us for this task. Lets go right now!"
I would like to point out that the point is not whether or not someone has attained it, but whether or not we are lifting up the same standard that Jesus and the rest of scriptures do. The bible says that this is a high task (for yes, we are saturated in sin), but it also says over and over that we have been given the tools to go there, and that those tools were put right in front of us when we were saved. It also says that all enemies that do not want us to accomplish this have been either killed or put in subjection to us (the flesh and the devil). Therefore, when we do not accomplish this task, it means we are failing to use these tools. Yes it is a high task, but they are powerful tools that have been put in front of us! And how could anyone take pride when they have accomplished this, for the tools were put right in front of them. All they had to do was push the button!
It is important not to have a fatalist attitude, but to have confidence and trust in scriptures like 1 Corinth 10:13, and 1thess 5:23. Rom 6-8 and Gal 5 show us that he flesh is dead, and that it does not need to reign over us anymore. We can have victory and live for God, and it is through Jesus' victory alone. Do I have to serve sin? Did God call me to a life where I have to continue to serve satan? I challenge you to find that in the New Testament. Instead we are shown over and over again in Scriptures the victory that He has won for us. We need to be lifting up the standard that God has given us, rather than having a fatalistic attitude. If we have the attitude that we cannot have victory, then we arent really "missing the mark" when we do sin, because we never had a mark to begin with. Instead, lets actually press for the high mark of perfection that God has called us to and given us the ability to attain.
This fatalistic attidue to me is totally wicked and of satan. It presents a false idea of where we stand with God, of what Jesus did for us, it takes away our accountability for our actions by putting the blame on our 'flesh' (rather than on ourselves, because the flesh is dead!). It is also blasphemy, for it puts the flesh and sin ABOVE GOD in power. This is a totally wicked doctrine.
| 2006/2/1 17:29||Profile|
I was talking to a friend of mine named Miles today about this and he said, "If you can name the sin, then you can repent from that sin."
I like that.
| 2006/2/1 18:19|
Just as unbelievers become hardened TO sin ,I believe christians become hardened FROM sin.It is the normal christian life.
I love talking about this and I NEVER get tired of it.
There is a law that is working in our members Romans 7:5.Just like there is the law of gravity.What goes up MUST come down.The law in our members is also a LAW and the law is basically this:
WHEN A MAN IS DEAD HE CANNOT SIN!!!PRAISE THE LORD!!!
| 2006/2/1 18:43|