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carmensd
Member



Joined: 2005/11/28
Posts: 1


 Re: mennonite church in Lebec

I noticed that you mentioned the Mennonite Church in Lebec with all the born-again conservative Mennonites. I just moved into the area and have visited the church twice. Before I commit myself, I'd like to know more about the church's reputation etc.

My name is Barbara. I moved to Pine Mountain from Los Angeles in October. I have been reading the Anabaptist writings and Anabaptist history. I really like www.anabaptistchurch.org

Please feel free to email me with your thoughts, as I want to know more about this big step in my life.


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Barbara Brooks

 2005/11/28 0:30Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
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Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4526


 Re:

Hi tiltedhalo...

Quote:
Can we believe that someone who has been shipwrecked and saved can lose this wonderful gift of salvation? You can forfeit the grace which has already justified you?

I think that a more proper question is whether or not a person that has truly been saved and born again could ever walk away from the Lord. Unfortunately, as with my earlier post about a friend of mine -- I think that the answer is certainly "yes."

Does anyone else know anyone that has "walked away" or "departed" from the faith?

As for the entire question about whether or not someone can "lose" their "salvation" -- I cannot seem to [i]reason away[/i] the 10th chapter of Hebrews (particularly verses 26-31), or II John 1:8-11.

:-)


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Christopher

 2005/11/28 1:47Profile
jimp
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Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

i have ministered for 40years {on and off} to the homeless. people who do not know who their parents are, people who don't know their birthdate , no i.d. some very sick in mind, some dying of aids. murderers, homoseexuals, drug adicts, drunks,whores and some unfortunate or confused. Jesus said to go and compel them to come in. we would feed them and try to help with clothes , bring them to church for an evagelical sermon , they almost all come forward and cry outto Jesus to save them and deliver them from their life of sin and sorrow.i know they are tired of waking up in their own urine and vomit. some have changed their lives ,butmost are dead or still waking up the same way.i have become a beleiver in free grace to those who call upon the name of th Lord.i rally believe God saves these peopleETERNALLY and their physical life has nothing to do with it. His mercy endures forever. if your God is not that good or His blood is not that strong then trust in your performance of holiness. holiness stems from the presence of God,not performance{holy ground, HOLY bibleetc. jimp

 2005/11/28 1:54Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: few want to pay the price

“..he is able to save COMPLETELY (or forever) those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.” Heb. 7:25

Quote:
When we begin to look up at the Cross, what do we see? ….look up at the defeated Lord, and believe that His perfect sacrifice was simply ... not enough.


Tiltedhalo, I agree with your concern. To say that Christ can’t hang on to his own is a perversion of his character. However, I believe that deep down many lack faith in God’s ability to completely save them. I think this is the problem with the many who start out eager to follow Christ, but later slip away, either into worldliness or into religious righteousness (ie the ones who look very, very saved) They simply cannot place their full trust in him. They refuse to surrender some hidden idol (not just things, but maybe a grudge, a security “blanket”, works, etc .. )


Who of us is able to decide who is completely saved? What criteria do we use?
AA can produce a change in heart and life. So can church. So can a lot of things in this world. We simply do not follow the same criteria that Jesus had. That is the real problem! I believe that we can be sincerely deceived. Man looks on the outside but God looks on the heart. Jesus knew the hearts of those who came seeking after him. That is why he “chased away” the rich man who came to him seeking a way to eternal life, and the ones to whom he said, “Foxes have holes, birds have nests…”… Let the dead bury the dead”
All these people wanted to keep a foot in the world. And Christ wanted no compromise.

I know someone who for a long time was very sincerely, genuinely hungry for God. All the right signs of salvation where present. Then when trials came, she fell away. Really she could not forgive her husband who betrayed her. She came back to me last year, weeping, craving to get back to God. Then she drifted again. She still can’t let go of her bitterness, which, I think is the real reason she keeps on straying. It is pointless for me to try to figure out her eternal destiny. The reality is: she is in a bad way with God, and can’t seem to shake it at this time – and maybe doesn’t want to. But her life journey is not done yet.

A lot of people want to get rid of their troubles, but they don’t want what it takes to become a follower of Christ – a crucifixion.

Since there are so many verses in Scripture about warnings, I think that they should be our focus. After all, it is all too normal for each of us to be deceived about our own security.

Heb. 3: 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sins deceitfulness.”

Because a hardened heart can be masked behind just about any impressive façade, we all are in danger of deception – about ourselves and each other.

May God continue to test and refine our faith, no matter what it costs! It’s worth it in the end, wouldn't you say?
Diane


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Diane

 2005/11/28 9:52Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

Quote:
Rom. 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.



Does anyone hear what Paul is teaching here? Where in the Parable of the sower of the seed then do the sons of God find themselves?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2005/11/28 10:45Profile
PreachParsly
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Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:
Does anyone else know anyone that has "walked away" or "departed" from the faith?



I know of a preacher that walked away and hasn't came back. He was the assistant pastor of a church and the pastor had a dream about him cheating on his wife and walking out of the church with his family. The pastor told the assitant about it.

Not long after the dream, sadly, it came to pass just as the Lord had showed the pastor. I don't know what has happened to the assitant pastor since then.


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Josh Parsley

 2005/11/28 11:19Profile
Graftedbranc
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Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Quote:
Does anyone else know anyone that has "walked away" or "departed" from the faith?



I believe that any of us can testify that at some time we have been frustrated and discouraged and "walked away" for a time. Who can testify they have perfectly followed the Lord all their days and never "walked away".

Thank the Lord that, "My Sheep hear My voice and they follow Me and I give Eternal Life to them and they shall never perish and no one is able to snatch them out of My hand"

But rather the Good Shephard leaves the 99 and goes and retrieves the One who has gone astray.

Thank the Lord that Peter "walked away" saying "I go fishing" returning to his old life, but the Lord said in resurrection, Go tell my brothers and Peter"

Thank the Lord that the deciples on the road to Emaus were "walking away" and the Lord came and walked with them and recovered them.


Graftedbranch

 2005/11/28 14:54Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

How many do you know that are described by this Scripture?

Luke 8:11 “Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. 13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. 14 Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2005/11/28 14:58Profile
JesusIsMyLrd
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Joined: 2005/10/28
Posts: 119
Iowa, USA

 Re: Once Saved Always Saved

i was raised with the OSAS mentality, but the verse that has brought me away from that thinking is:

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

There were several others, but this is the main on.

Some may say that those who believe in being able to lose your salvation will be filled with boubt and fear. This is NOT true (At least with me). i fully believe that i could purposefully choose to walk away from the Lord. He would chase me, calling me back, but if i continually chose to shove Him away, he would close the door. When He would, i don't know. He is so merciful and loving. But He is also just and holy. He says that no liar, adulterer or andy such thing will enter into the kingdom of heaven. So if you are "sinning" (1 John) and continuing in it, you will not enter in. It doesn't matter what you did 20 years ago, but what you are doing with Christ now!

It is possible that i could become as this church did in Revelation. But does that mean i worry about it all the time? No. It urges me to go onward with Christ, and to grow more in Him. If there is such a thing as OSAS, then why did Jesus need to preach to these churches? And we know that:

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

We are saved by the grace of God through faith. We are kept by faith. But faith brings works. They are the fruit. So if the works are not good, the faith is not, and the soul is not in the book of life. It is very simple, if you take it at face value.

i may be speaking out of ignorance, but this is what i believe, and i trust that God will lead me in His way, everlasting. My faith is in Him. Not myself! Hallelujah! :-)

May He be glorified! Thank you!


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Nathan

 2005/11/28 15:17Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: faillure - differenciates the genuine from the false

thanks Jeff, we keep coming back to that scripture.
For most, their failure simply reveals that their hearts were rocky soil.

However, for those who were divinely rooted, failure may be their gateway to brokenness and deeper faith. That is why, I believe that it is dangerous to evaluate people according to what we see on the surface. God has one’s entire lifetime to work on them.

I think of King David, King Solomon, Moses, Abraham, Samson, Jacob, to name a few of those who fell. There is a very helpful book called “No Rival Love” in which the writer Dwight Small discusses these lives and explains how God used testings to expose their “rival loves” that is, their unconscious trusts and affections. It was through their failures that their faith grew – until, truly, their only love was God.


But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation – IF you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.” Col. 1:23

Our journey is not done. We still have many trials to undergo. What would we do if we lost our securities, if we were deeply wounded, unjustly treated, if our property was confiscated, if our spouse walked out on us, if a child strayed, or we are tempted by the things in this world? God already knows what tests we will fail – and he can bring them to us at any time in order to us to humble us. Failure is a part of the refining process.

PS: Many people have strayed long ago from their first love Rev. 2:4 but because there appears to be no evidence of it, they are never used as examples in this discussion. I suspect if there is no divine discipline somewhere along the line (likely accompanied by failure), we would have to wonder if they are really his children in the first place.
Diane


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Diane

 2005/11/28 15:32Profile





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