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roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re:

Quote:
I know this is futile...


I agree, it is futile. And it may be even lead to faulty conclusions. The Holy Spirit is the better person to seek when you want to understand spiritual truths. Let him guide you to people whose life journeys will help shed light on the truth.

My testimony:
I was saved twice. The first time by the efforts of the flesh, after listening to the voice of man. I was sincere. The second time it was a supernatural work of God. God was sincere.

After the first salvation, I sometimes shared my testimony. And it all seemed exactly right. It was a good testimony. But it was a form of godliness without the power. If you had asked me then, I would have given you a good answer. But it would not have been of any use to you.

I never "back slid" in between. Instead, it was through many trials in life that I realized that I was trusting in self, and man. (a very unconscious thing) - through Spirit conviction.

I rejoice that God took away my first "salvation" because it would have never withstood the final fires. It didn't originate with him, whereas the second did.

I would have never seen any need to change my allegiance if God hadn't showed me how hopeless it was.
If you are wondering about your own condition before the Lord, I encourage you to ask God to let you know - even if it means going through painful trials. In the end, it will be worth it.
Diane


_________________
Diane

 2005/11/20 23:12Profile









 Re:

What do you guys see in the parable of the Unforgiving Servant? Matthew 18:21-35

It would appear that he received forgiveness from the King, and then because of his actions after his forgiveness, he was condemned and put to death.

Did the unforgiving servant lose his salvation?

Romans 11:21-22 "For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off."

Hebrews 6:4-6 "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame."

Heb 10:26 "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins"

Jude 1:5 "But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe."

I tell you that one of the biggest issues I encounter with drunken, fornicating "Christians" when preaching in the open-air is the doctrine of "Once Saved Always Saved". They believe it doesn't matter what they do, God loves and accepts them just as they are, they don't need to change, and in fact, they say they can't stop sinning!

They want covering but not cleansing. They want their sin and their soul and the Savior! They want to be saved from hell but not from this crooked and perverse generation, not from their sin. You would think John the Baptist said, "Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the law of the Lord!" rather then "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!"

Is it any wonder people don't change? They are being told that they don't have to, and that they can't! And so they stay the same, remaining in their damned and condemned sinful state.

 2005/11/20 23:56
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

i was saved over 40 years ago and soon thereafter i began to minister with a big time baptist evangelist. i was a street evangelist then associate evangelist then i would preach in the smaller churces the boss was invited to. i saw that the boss became less interested in the salvation of souls and more in success. he became very successful and i pegged him as a phony and went back in the nightclub business on bourbon st. in new orleans. many christians came by and told me how i was going to hell and some said that i greived the Holy Spirit. i was kicked out of the baptist church that i was a member of by the pastor and the board of deacons. if anyone said that they were christians i avoided them and there condscention. a man came up to me on the street one day and asked me if my name was jim and if i was from baltimore, because his name was ron and he was from there. he invited me for coffee around the corner and we went. he told me that God had sent him to tell me that God loved as much that day as he did when i was preaching. the Holy Spirit fwelled up inside of me and i began to sob and tremble in contrition. the love of Jesus was overwhelming . finger pointing christians can never convict of sin only the Spirit can convict of sin. you must be born from above. you cannot birth anyone into the kingdom of God.only God can . in the garden adam ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and not frrom the tree of life. salvation is in the tree of life not of works, good or evil, lest i become puffed up and point my fingers to someone other then theSavior,His blood, his covenant,His grace and mercy, His power to keep me, His love that holds me as His bond slave. i will trst HIm and His blood sacrifice for eternal security.Which sin is greater than His blood. i will rest in jesus Christ and his finished work and if i go to hell doing it than i will. jimp

 2005/11/21 1:04Profile
martymill
Member



Joined: 2005/10/17
Posts: 48
Montreal, Canada

 Re:

Quote:
[size=xx-small]"I am sorry, but I can not imagine going to Heaven, if I was to die, during my fallen state. Some would say: "Maybe you were never saved in the first place?" I can assure you that 1992 was a true meeting with God, just as January 2005."[/size]

Dear Gery,

You remind me of Leonard Ravenhill's words; "a man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument".

God bless you,
Martin

James 2:17 "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."


_________________
Martin Millette

 2005/11/21 9:24Profile
Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Quote:
I know this is futile...but im going to ask one more time that people only give their testimonies as to why they do or do not believe...



Brother I believe it it futile becuase "OSAS" cannot be determined by testimony, but by the revelation in the Scriptures. Our experience confirms truth and testifies to truth and expresses truth but our experience never establishes truth.

Graftedbranch

 2005/11/21 9:44Profile
Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re: A Testimony

I was saved at age 17, went to bible school and followed the Lord strongly for a time. I was a person who held up high standards as to what I believed God expected of me. And eventually I began to live under condemnation all the time. Eventually I got so fed up and discouraged I said, "at least people in the World arn't miserable all the time.

For a time I went off into the world and tried to forget I was a Christian and acted like I was not a Christian and found new friends who did not know I was a Christian so I would not "dishonor the Lord'by acting like one of them. This went on for about 2 years.

Finally I was convictied to return to the Lord but I still had mountians of Condemnation. I finaly cried to the Lord and said, "Lord, I don't know where I am or what my condition is. who can know their own heart? I Call on you. Show me from your word, and let me see myself in Your Light.

The Lord led me to John. As I read the verse," My Sheep hear my voice, and they follow Me and I give eternal Life to them and they shall never persih and no one is able to snatch them out of my hand". The Spirit inpressed this verse upon me in power. It was the Very word of the Lord Jesus to me. My sense of condemnation disolved forever. The Spirit in my spirit quickened this verse to me in a way that dispelled all the lies of the enemy that had kept me in bondage for years.

From that Point on I began to come to the Lord alone as my teacher and instructer. I said, "Lord, all these truths in the scripture conserning the cross, the Spirit, and the Victorious Christian life, They are either for me or they are not. They are either true for me or they are not."

When I took this position, the Scritpures came alive to me. I began to experience the reality of all the great truths I had learned in Bible School and in my study of scritpure. I began to experience Christ as my indwelling Living Lord and Saviour, my teacher, comforter, and everything.

And today I know that salvation is not based in my performance or my living by a certian standard. But rather it is based in the redemption in christ Jesus. I have been born of HIs Spirit. I have His eternal Life within me and I will never persish. I could only perish if the Son of God Himself who is within me could perish.

Graftedbranch


 2005/11/21 10:06Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Hbr 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he [u]was[/u] sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2005/11/21 10:08Profile
npautsky
Member



Joined: 2003/9/10
Posts: 82
Texas

 Re: Once Saved Always Saved

Hello JFEdgar,


I have never believed that a person once saved is always saved, when younger I suppose I may have considered the idea but then a quick reading of God's word always brought me back to reality. I have observed that the embracing of OSAS seems to have to do with our standing or our footing with God. The Terror of the Lord is not a pleasant thing to deal with and people want to relegate those kind of thoughts to the distant past to back when before they were saved. Yet the Bible clearly teaches that the Terror of the Lord is something that the person who has had a genuine experience with God may still one day have to deal with if he should choose to forsake the narrow path, that is why the Bible is so full of warnings to resist the devil and to be diligent to follow the Lord. Do we really expect to be able accept the Lord's sacrifice of his Son, but ignore his Holy Spirit? The Lord has more work to do than just the work of his Son on the cross, now his Holy Spirit must work his work in you to lead you on to heaven. Just as the Jews put the blood on the door posts in Egypt and were safe for that night, but lets not forget that most of them died cursed in the desert because they would not obey the voice of the Lord. For more information on this subject please read the Bible for yourself. Beware of universities and churches and books that use logic and reasoning to contradict the Bible. I would humbly suggest that anyone who is genuinely looking for the truth in this matter to carefully consider the scriptures below and then follow up by searching the whole of the Bible for themselves. This is not really a debatable topic as far as the Bible is concerned.



2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:


1Ti 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.


1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.


Heb 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
Heb 12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.


1Co 10:5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
1Co 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.


Deu 29:19 And it come to pass, when he heareth the words of this curse, that he bless himself in his heart, saying, I shall have peace, though I walk in the imagination of mine heart, to add drunkenness to thirst:
Deu 29:20 The LORD will not spare him, but then the anger of the LORD and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven.


Act 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
Act 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.


Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.


1Ch 28:9 And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off forever.


Joh 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;


Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.


Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Joh 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.


Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.


Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Col 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblamable and unreprovable in his sight:
Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel...


Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.


Heb 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.


Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.


2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.


Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called Today; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast unto the end...


1Jo 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.


Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
1Pe 5:9 Whom resist steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.



Mat 25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art a hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strewed:
Mat 25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
Mat 25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strewed:
Mat 25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
Mat 25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
Mat 25:29 For unto everyone that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
Mat 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Luk 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
Luk 12:41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?
Luk 12:42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
Luk 12:43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Luk 12:44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
Luk 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.


Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


THE BIBLE MAKES IT PERFECTLY CLEAR THAT THERE ARE CONDITIONS THAT MUST BE MET IF A PERSON EXPECTS TO BE SAVED.


HEAR WHAT DAVID WILKERSON SAYS:

A PERFECT HEART HAS BEEN PART OF COVENANT FAITH FROM THE TIME GOD FIRST SPOKE TO ABRAHAM: I AM THE ALMIGHTY GOD; WALK BEFORE ME AND BE THOU PERFECT" GEN. 17:1.

LATER GOD REMINDED THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL, "THOU SHALT BE PERFECT WITH THE LORD THY GOD" DEUT.18:13.

IN THE NEW TESTAMENT WE SEE THAT GOD'S COMMAND FOR HIS PEOPLE TO BE PERFECT IS RENEWED IN HIS SON. JESUS SAID, "YOU SHALL BE PERFECT JUST AS YOUR FATHER IN HEAVEN IS PERFECT" MATT. 5:48


_________________
Noel Pautsky

 2005/11/21 10:10Profile
JFEdgar
Member



Joined: 2005/10/21
Posts: 133
Wellington, Ohio

 Re:

Quote:
i will trst Him and His blood sacrifice for eternal security.



Amen! Praise God!

Great testimony.


_________________
Joe E

 2005/11/21 12:11Profile
JFEdgar
Member



Joined: 2005/10/21
Posts: 133
Wellington, Ohio

 Re:

Quote:
Brother I believe it it futile becuase "OSAS" cannot be determined by testimony, but by the revelation in the Scriptures. Our experience confirms truth and testifies to truth and expresses truth but our experience never establishes truth.


To Graftedbranch:
Hey brother,
I agree with this, except instead of saying "Revelation in scriptures" I would like to change it to "Revelation OF scriptures" (as in, by the Holy Spirit). You cannot "flesh out" the scriptures, no matter how learned you are. I know of people who have read the bible literally hundreds of times, many who have memorized the majority of the New Testament, who hold doctrines that would make the majority of truly born again Christians nauseous.

Anyway, that is not the point of this post. On SermonIndex there have been many posts in the past that were for the purpose of debating the scriptures about OSAS. The moderators, it seems, generally like subjects not to repeat themselves, and they like you to go back to the old posts if you would like to bring that up again. This, however, is different than just debating the subject (if i wanted to debate it, i would have brought up one of the past discussions about OSAS)... i wanted to hear testimonies.

To all:
From what I have seen in the thread so far, it seems that God has used truth from both sides mightily for His glory. This has only confirmed my strong belief that there is some truth to both sides of the argument. There is a balance here, it seems, and I refuse to stretch certain verses to fit my doctrinal slant to one side or the other. Instead, it has been confirmed in my heart that I need to be content in waiting for the Holy Spirit to reveal to me how the very obvious meaning of Rom 11 fits with the very obvious meaning of Rom 8 (just two small examples in the very large wealth of scriptures for both sides). I refuse to stretch either one so that I may establish a "systematic theology". I want God's truth, all else is vain. It is a fear of mine that I would one day sacrifice the Truth of God (Christ, John 14:6) for a doctrine that may make sense to me but was never revealed. Amen?

By God's grace I will be patient, and wait for the Truth Himself, as He makes Himself known to me more and more each day. To God be the praise and the glory for His patience with us and the grace He works in us!

Love,
Joe


_________________
Joe E

 2005/11/21 12:25Profile





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