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Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Quote:
There is much about dispensational theology, so what is the Holy Scripture teaching here in regards to John the Baptist being filled by the Holy Spirit even in his mother's womb? What is the result of the Holy Spirit's work in John?



John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit. That is what the Scripture says. Amen. Many in the Old Testament were filled with the Spirit.

Graftedbranch

 2005/12/6 19:26Profile
npautsky
Member



Joined: 2003/9/10
Posts: 82
Texas

 Re: Not True.





Mat 13:45-51 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like

unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:

Who, when he had found one pearl of

great price, went and sold all that he had, and

bought it.

Again, [i][b]the kingdom of heaven is

like unto a net[/b][/i] , that was cast into

the sea, and gathered of every kind:

Which, when it was full, they drew to

shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into

vessels, but cast the bad away.

[i][b]So shall it be at the end of the

world: the angels shall come forth, and sever

the wicked from among the just, And

shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there

shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Jesus saith unto them, [color=0000CC]Have

ye understood all these things?[/color] They

say unto him, Yea, Lord.[/b][/i]



Quote:
Now, If the Kingdom itself is "Going to heaven when you die" or even Heaven itself, How can it be sown into the ground and grow up into a large tree? He is not talking here about "the Word of the Kingdom" but the Kingdom itself.

This Kingdom is not heaven. Heaven is already there. IN the heavens. Christ is in heaven in Glory. But the Kingdom today is like a seed sown into the ground and it grows up. Heaven is not growing up.The Kingdom of the heavens is not heaven but the Kingdom which is of the heavens which is growing now in the hearts of those in whom the Word has been sown through the Spirit. And in the comming age it will be manifested as the Kingdom of the Heavens when Christ shall return and establish Himself on the Throne of David for 1000 years and those of us who are counted worthy shall reign with Him for 1000 years:?



This doctrine is not true according to the Bible.


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Noel Pautsky

 2005/12/6 21:23Profile
Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Quote:
This doctrine is not true according to the Bible.



Brother, there is nothing in the scriptures you quoted that would infer that "this doctrine is not true. It is the doctrine of the Scriptures and the whole body of the New Testament bears it up.

Graftedbranch

 2005/12/6 21:27Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

Are we not seated in Heavenly places with Christ Jesus? If so why are we still on this earth. We must separate body, soul, and spirit, flesh, mind and spirit. Hbr 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Eph 1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:

Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places],

Eph 2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:

Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly [places] might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

How can this be? In heaven and on earth at the same time. We are saved in Spirit and our spirit is Now the Spirit of Christ Jesus that is Birthed in us. That part is perfect and complete a whole new creature Satan out and Christ in. We are being saved in soul, the mind is our soul and it is closely connected to the spirit that is how the influence of Christ and His righteousness is made righteousness to us.
The mind is being saved and will always be in that mode from now to eternity, we will always be learning Christ, who is God and no being, not even an adopted son who now has the Nature of The Father, by new birth, will ever exhaust the Mind of God.

Our bodies will be saved in the resurrection. So we are saved in spirit, being saved in soul, and will be saved in body. 2 Corinthians 1:10 Who delivered us from so great a death,(Spirit of Christ in us) and doth deliver: (The Holy Spirit who is revealing the Mind of Christ in us) in whom we trust that He will yet deliver us; (ON Resurrection morning, a body Like His) delivered, Past tense at regeneration birth, doth deliver, Present tense, now being taught, will yet deliver, future tense.

The kingdom of heaven is where we are in spirit
The kingdom of heaven is what we are being taught in our soul mind by the Holy Spirit.
The kingdom of heaven is why our bodies have been quickened to contain the Holiness of Christ in us the Hope of Glory, until we are given our new resurrected bodies Like His.

The 1000 years is for Israel, the Born Again are already in the Father's House, that Christ is preparing the place for us. He said, "if it were not true I would have told you so.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2005/12/7 2:24Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

Brother GB wrote:

Quote:
John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit. That is what the Scripture says. Amen. Many in the Old Testament were filled with the Spirit.



So based on your statement do you teach that John the Baptist was born of the Spirit?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2005/12/7 11:00Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Perspective from an old sage

"[i]He was not only a zealous preacher in the pulpit, but a sincere Christian in
his closet, frequent in self-examination, as well as in pressing it upon
others; being afraid, lest while he preached to others he himself should be a
cast-away. To prove this, I shall transcribe what follows from his own
diary.[/i]"

“To make sure of eternal life, (said he) is the great business which
the sons of death have to do in this world. Whether a man consider
the immortality of his own soul, the ineffable joys and glory of
heaven, the extreme and endless torments of hell, the inconceivable
sweetness of peace of conscience, or the misery of being subject to
the terrors thereof; all these put a necessity, a solemnity, a glory
upon this work. But, Oh! the difficulties and dangers attending it!
How many, and how great are these? What judgement, faithfulness,
resolution, and watchfulness does it require? Such is the
deceitfulness, darkness, and inconstancy of our hearts, and such
the malice, policy and diligence of Satan to manage and improve it,
that he who attempts this work had need both to watch his
seasons for it, and frequently look up to God for his guidance and
illumination, and to spend many sad and serious thoughts before he
adventure upon a determination and conclusion of the state of his
soul.

To the end therefore that this most important work may not
miscarry in my hands, I have collected, with all the care I can, the
best and soundest characters I can find in the writings of our
modern divines, taken out of the scripture, and by their labours
illustrated and prepared for use, that I might make a right
application of them.

1. I have earnestly sought the Lord for the assistance of his Spirit,
which can only manifest my own heart unto me, and show me the true
state thereof, which is that thing my soul does most earnestly desire to
know; and I hope the Lord will answer my desire therein, according to
his promises, Luke 11:13. John 14:26.

2. I have endeavoured to cast out and lay aside self-love, lest my heart
being prepossessed therewith, my judgement should be perverted, and
become partial on passing sentence on my estate. I have, in some
measure, brought my heart to be willing to judge and condemn myself
for an hypocrite, if such I shall be found on trial, as to approve myself
for sincere and upright. Yea, I would have it so far from being grievous
to me so to do, that if I have been all this while mistaken and deceived,
I shall rejoice and bless the Lord with my soul, that now at last it may
be discovered to me, and I may be set right, though I lay the
foundation new again. This I have laboured to bring my heart to,
knowing that thousands have dashed and split to pieces upon this
rock. And indeed he that will own the person of a judge, must put off
the person of a friend.

3. It has been my endeavour to keep upon my heart a deep sense of
that great judgement-day throughout this work as knowing by
experience what a potent influence this has on the conscience, to make
it deliberate, serious and faithful in its work, and therefore I have
demanded of my sun conscience, before the resolution of each
question, O my conscience, deal faithfully with me in this particular,
and say no more to me than thou wilt own and stand to in the great
day, when the counsels of all hearts shall be made manifest.

4. Having seriously weighed each mark, and considered where in the
weight and substance of it lieth, I have gone to the Lord in prayer for
his assistance, ere I have drawn up the answer of my conscience, and
as my heart has been persuaded therein, so have I determined and
resolved: what has been clear to my experience, I have so set down;
and what has been dubious, I have here left it so.

5. I have made choice of the fittest seasons I had for this work, and set
to it when I have found my heart in the most quiet and serious frame.
For as he that would see his face in a glass, must be fixed, not in
motion, or in water, must make no commotion in it; so it is in this case.

6. Lastly, To the end I may be successful in this work, I have laboured
all along carefully to distinguish betwixt such sins as are grounds of
doubting, and such as are only grounds of humiliation; knowing that
not every evil is a ground of doubting, though all, even the smallest
infirmities, administer matter of humiliation; and thus I have desired to
enterprise this great business. O Lord, assist thy servant, that he may
not mistake herein; but, if his conscience do now condemn him, he may
lay a better foundation whilst he has time; and if it shall now acquit
him, he may also have boldness in the day of judgement.”

From [i]The Life of John Flavel[/i]


_________________
Mike Balog

 2005/12/8 9:56Profile
Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Quote:
So based on your statement do you teach that John the Baptist was born of the Spirit?



No. Primarily because in the New Testament we are shown that regeneration is based in the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.

1 Peter 1:3 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has regenerated us unto a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead"

Prior to Christ's crucifixion and resurrection there was no "new birth". The New Birth was prophecied in the Old Testament, "a new spirit I will put within them, and My Spirit I will put within them".

It is Christ as the Resurrected Life Giving Spirit who regenerates us and indwells us (1 Cor 15:45). To be born again requires Christ to be processed in becomming flesh and dying and resurrecting to enter into us as Life.

IN the Old Testament the Spirit came upon people, filled people and indwelt them. But He was not one with them in Life. He was not their life.

The question is, is our perception of the Spirit's work within us today limited to our concept of the Spirit's work in the Old Testament.

If we don't see a difference, It may because we do not see the intrinsic difference and the reality of the Spirit within us as Life.

Our difficulty may be that we are limiting in our concept God's New Testament work to what we see in the Old Testament and don't realize that "He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit" (1 Cor 6:17). This the Old Testament saints could not say.

Graftedbranch

 2005/12/9 10:57Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

Brother GB wrote:

Quote:
The question is, is our perception of the Spirit's work within us today limited to our concept of the Spirit's work in the Old Testament.



The life of Abraham and all that it teaches us, gives us the path by which God has chosen to save fallen man. We are saved by grace through faith. This statement defines the work of God in those who discover the essence of this faith.

God speaks His promises to His people. If He promises to be their God, does He hold anything back that would cause man to rely on his own carnal mind and fallen nature? To teach anything less means that the one's doctrine has an inaccurate view of God's work and desire for His people.

Was Melchizedec real or just a story?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2005/12/9 12:10Profile
Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Quote:
God speaks His promises to His people. If He promises to be their God, does He hold anything back that would cause man to rely on his own carnal mind and fallen nature? To teach anything less means that the one's doctrine has an inaccurate view of God's work and desire for His people.



Brother,

I am not sure why you want to minimize the significane of God's plan and purpose when, IN the fullness of Time, He sent forth His Son, born under Law...

Is Christ's incarnation, death and resurrection of no signifigance? Did He accomplish nothing that was unaccomplished before?

Is the Old covenant the same as the New and nothing has been changed?

Graftedbranch

 2005/12/9 15:00Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

Quote, brother Rookie:

""The life of Abraham and all that it teaches us, gives us the path by which God has chosen to save fallen man. We are saved by grace through faith. This statement defines the work of God in those who discover the essence of this faith.""


Abraham did not have the Faith of the Son of God in Him. That is why God had to recon Abraham's obedience to Him as righteousness.

After the Cross, we that are saved by believing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and He is now our Faith. Our righteousness is now made to us form God the Father in Christ Jesus. We need no reckoning of righteousness because Christ is our righteousness.

1 Corinthians 1:30 But of Him (The Holy Spirit) are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

As to faith; Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Do we see that the faith of faithful Abraham was to believe God concerning his son Jacob. Just as we must believe God our Father about His Son Jesus Christ. Then we receive salvation in Christ and The Faith of Christ and The Holy Spirit. Abraham received not of these, only the promise that Christ would be his heir to save the world from sin.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh ((I live by the faith of the Son of)) God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, ((that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.))
Given not reckoned

Eph 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence ((by the faith of Him.))

"The Life we now live we live by the Faith of The Son of God, Who has been Born Again in those that Believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Not that God would give Abraham back his son Jacob in the resurrection of the dead, but God provided the Ram in the thicket as the sacrifice instead of Jacob. The Ram is a perfect picture or What Jesus would do for us on the Cross if we believe. We no longer have to die for our sin, but live to God by the Christ that is in us.

In Christ: Phillip



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Phillip

 2005/12/9 22:35Profile





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