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Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Quote:
Unfortunately the new doctrine of Justification by faith alone without any works makes all of these teachings a non-issue. Yes we say, if we want to really please God then we should do these things out of love for him but it is not absolutely necessary because my faith has got me covered. Hear what Jesus says, he doesn't teach that at all.



Brother,

If people have this attitude it is because of a total lack in most circles of preaching and teaching concerning the Judgement seat of Christ and the Reward of the Kingdom.

All the passages you quoted are refering to the Kingdom, not eternal Life, They refer to the Reward of the Kingdom, reigning with Christ, and the judgement seat of Christ.

I ask you concerning Matt 13:35, If you go back 2 verses it says:

Another parable He spoke to them, The Kingdom of the heavens is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal until the whole was leavened"

The parables you quoted are all "the parables of the Kingdom. i. e. The Kingdom of the heavens is like unto, etc. If they are about "going to heaven when you die", how is it like leven which a woman took and hid?

He said, "the Kingdom of the heavens is like a mustard seed sown into the ground." If He is talking about a place where you go when you die, how can the Kingdom be like a mustard seed sown into the ground? The Kingdom is the subject, sown is the verb. The Kingdom is like the mustard seed. That is His point.

These are abount the Kingdom of the heavens which was being sown then as the Spirit into His church and in the comming age would be manifested as the comming Kingdom at Christ's return. Not "getting into heaven when you die".

Eternal Life is a matter of birth. If you are born of God you have the eternal Life of God, you are a child of God. And if a child, an heir also, heirs of God and joint heirs of Christ if so be that we suffer with him that we also might be glorified together with Him,

If any Christians are complacent not to go on, to follow the Lord fully, to deny their soul life and take up their cross daily, It is because there is a total lack both of unfolding the glorious Person of Christ who is our indwelling Life, and the glorious hope and promise of the Kingdom. And also a total lack of expounding the terrible loss and dicipline of the Lord.

The Judgement seat of Christ is one of the most neglected revealtions of the New Testament in our day. The issue which is almost universally presented is heaven or hell. Going to heaven when you die or going to hell. And this ignores almost every aspect revealed in scritpures concerning resurrection, the judgement seat of Christ, the Mellinium, and the Future Glory of the New Jeruselem in the New Earth.

It is not about heaven and hell (though heaven is real and the Lake of fire is real), It is about being reconciled to God, to be sons of God, to grow up as mature sons and to be His expression on the earth with the hope of the reward of the Kingdom in the next age and the promise of Eternal Life as the New Jeruselem.

The Gospel is not about a destination but a Person. And we are called to share in the Glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

This is the revelation of the Bible, but it is absent from most believers consideration.

Quote:
Unfortunately the new doctrine of Justification by faith alone without any works



How new is this doctrine? You mean since the Reformation? Or since Romans 5 and the book of Galatians and the whole New Testament were written?

Graftedbranch

 2005/12/4 22:11Profile
GaryE
Member



Joined: 2005/4/26
Posts: 376
Mifflinburg, Pennsylvania

 Re:


Dear Graftedbranch,

I meet and talk with many people from different churches and theologies all the time. For three years twice a day I attended an interdenominational chapel that has services twice a day. During services there is almost always incorporated into the service a testimony time. Most people who are currently walking a sanctified life did not live that way from day one. They grew in the Lord over time. Often their salvation experience was years before they were able to believe for various deliverances. Their separation from the world almost always began years after their initial conversion and usually on a specific time in their life that they often tell about. If justification and sanctification were the same thing, as you imply, these people would not have testimonies that declare differently.

In Christ,
GaryE


_________________
Gary Eckenroth

 2005/12/4 23:47Profile
Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re: The Parables

Let's just look at the parables for a little bit.

The book of Mathew is written to the Jews to present Christ as the fulfillment of all the Old Testament prophecies concerning Christ as the Messiah. For this reason in Mathew is recorded all the parables of the Kingdom which refers to the comming age and Christ as the Seed of David who will inherit the throne of David.

The Kingdom of God is more inclusive and includes God's reign even through Isreal in the OT. But the Kingdom of the Heavens referes to the Kingdom which was "now at hand" being sown and the age to come when it is manifested on the earth. (Matt: 13:39 ... And the harvest is the consumation of the age...)

In Matt 13:11 The Lord says to His diciples:

Because to you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of the heavens, but to them it has not been given...

He is speaking of the "mysteries of the Kingdom of the heavens." It is the Kingdom He is refering to.

He says of the seed sown among thorns and rocky places and such, When anyone hears the word of the Kingdom... the evil one comes and snatches it away. So this Seed here is the "Word of the Kingdom but not the Kingdom itself. It is the Word of the Kingdom.

IN 24 He says the Kingdom has become like a man sowing good seed in the field. So here the Kingdom is like a man sowning seed and the Kingdom is the man, and again the seed is the Word of the Kingdom.

IN 31 however He says, "The Kingdom... is like a mustard seed sown into the Ground... Here it is the Kingdom itself which is like a mustard seed, not the Word of the Kingdom but the Kingdom itself. The Lord did not just get sloppy with his words.

NOw, If the Kingdom itself is "Going to heaven when you die" or even Heaven itself, How can it be sown into the ground and grow up into a large tree?

He is not talking here about "the Word of the Kingdom" but the Kingdom itself.

This Kingdom is not heaven. Heaven is already there. IN the heavens. Christ is in heaven in Glory. But the Kingdom today is like a seed sown into the ground and it grows up. Heaven is not growing up.

The Kingdom of the heavens is not heaven but the Kingdom which is of the heavens which is growing now in the hearts of those in whom the Word has been sown through the Spirit. And in the comming age it will be manifested as the Kingdom of the Heavens when Christ shall return and establish Himself on the Throne of David for 1000 years and those of us who are counted worthy shall reign with Him for 1000 years:

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priest of God and of Christ and will riegn with Him for 1000 years."

Graftedbranch

 2005/12/4 23:54Profile
Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Quote:
f justification and sanctification were the same thing, as you imply, these people would not have testimonies that declare differently.



Brother, I don't suggest that sanctification and justification are the same thing. Justification is the basis by which we are regeneratated and regeneration ushers us into the Process of sanctification.

This process takes a life time. It is not a one time event. It is a process. We are being sanctified. It's initiation is at our regeneration but its outworking is over many years and through many differeint experiences of Christ and His working within us.

With some their initial experience is deep and profound and they are imediatly separated from the world, sin and such, But with others the process takes time and through many experiences and the Lord's dealings with us. When we are saved, we are being sanctified. The Spirit is always working to sanctify us. He is within us and He is working to subdue us, to grow in us, to separate us from everything contrary to Christ. His work begins immediatly, our response may be lacking and dragged out over many years.

But Sanctification is a process which we are saved into according to the Scriptures which is where we derive Truth. Our very salvation is the result of the Spirit's initial work in sanctifiying us unto the obedience of faith and the sprinkling of the Blood of Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 2:11 says, "For both He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of One, for which cause He is not ashamed to call them brothers."

Christ is the one sanctifying us and we are the ones being sanctified. And we are both (Christ and us) of one Father (as our source ie we are regenerated with His Life) therefore He is not ashamed to call us brothers..

2 Thess 2:13 But we ought to thank God always concerning you, brothers beloved of the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning unto salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the Truth.

1 Peter 1:2 "Chosen according to the foreknowlege of God the Father in the sanctification of the Spirit unto the obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied"

The children of Isreal struck the Blood and ate the Lamb. The striking of the Blood saved them from condemnation and the eating of the Lamb strengthened them to rise up and leave Egypt and pass through the waters. The Eating of the Lamb signifies the taking in of Christ. And this initiated the process of sanctification and the leaving of Egypt (the world) and comming out from under the authority of Pharaoh (Satan).

The Blood was external toward God and speaks of the application of the Blood of Christ as our redemption and justification, and the eating of the Lamb was internal and speaks of our regeneration issuing in dispositional sanctification (Dispensational sanctification refers to our position being set apart in Christ, but dispositional refers to our actual experience of sanctification and growth in Life).

Graftedbranch

 2005/12/5 0:11Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

Quote:

In the parable of the tower and also the king making war, we are warned to count the cost of being a Christian.

He was the cost. We are baptized into His death and His suffering.

The parable of the man building his house on either sand or rock, again shows the necessity of obedience in order to expect salvation.

He is the Rock and on this Rock of revelation that Jesus Christ is the Son of God is our salvation and upon that He will build His Church.

The Parable of the absent master speaks of faithfulness to the Lord, if the servant stops being a good servant and chooses to become a poor servant then destruction becomes his part.

Galatians 4:1-7 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the Father. Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world: But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

A bond servant is under a master and we are told if we can become free do so. A servant cannot call a master Father. But a son can, and a son can choose to be the servant as Christ did. Because He thought it Jhn 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Phl 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

We must do the same and not put ourselves into bondage again, but choose because of who we are to be a servant. Not because of what we do, but because of who we are, son's of the Father and brother's and sister's of Christ and each other.

Christ is all and in all and we must see that the parables are for those that are under the Law and ruled by a King on this earth who is not blood kin to the One appointing the King chosen Of God who's Blood flowed through His Vanes. Even as we are son's we must choose as Christ did to empty ourselves and believe ourselves to be nothing for the surpassing knowledge of Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior. Then take upon ourselves to be servants, not by what we do but by who we are In Christ. Philippians 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: A son is a servant to His Father because he now has the same nature as the Father and chooses to honor Him by becoming a servant. Remember the Prodigal Son, he begged just to be as the Father's servants and what did the Father do. Not because the son worked for it but because the Father loved Him did He place The Seal of The Father's ring and robe and prepared a feast, just like us the wedding feast of the Lamb.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2005/12/5 1:49Profile
npautsky
Member



Joined: 2003/9/10
Posts: 82
Texas

 Re:

Christinyou and Graftedbranch

I think you two guys are both up to your neck in false doctrine. I don't care to discuss matters with you any further.


_________________
Noel Pautsky

 2005/12/5 4:04Profile









 Re: OSAS

Quote:
Even as we are son's we must choose as Christ did to empty ourselves and believe ourselves to be nothing for the surpassing knowledge of Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior. Then take upon ourselves to be servants, not by what we do but by who we are In Christ. Philippians 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: A son is a servant to His Father because he now has the same nature as the Father and chooses to honor Him by becoming a servant. Remember the Prodigal Son, he begged just to be as the Father's servants and what did the Father do. Not because the son worked for it but because the Father loved Him did He place The Seal of The Father's ring and robe and prepared a feast, just like us the wedding feast of the Lamb.

Phillip,

Thank you for sharing this. I see what you're getting at, I think.

 2005/12/5 7:10
Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

That is a good word Phillip.

Graftedbranch

 2005/12/5 10:06Profile
Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Quote:
I think you two guys are both up to your neck in false doctrine. I don't care to discuss matters with you any further.



Acts 17:32 And when they heard of a resurrection of the dead, some scoffed; and others said, "We will hear you again concerning this".

People react differently.

Graftedbranch

 2005/12/5 10:16Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:


Luke 1:15 For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink. He will also be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb.

There is much about dispensational theology, so what is the Holy Scripture teaching here in regards to John the Baptist being filled by the Holy Spirit even in his mother's womb? What is the result of the Holy Spirit's work in John?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2005/12/6 12:27Profile





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