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InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2772
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Quote:
To be saved is to be regenerated.



Just trying to think things out here...Does this mean salvation=regeneration? Doesn't salvation encompass much more than just regeneration? There is a deliverance from something implied in salvation, deliverance from what?

Also, how does the following verse fit into the OSAS equation?

I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
(Jud 1:5)

In Christ,

Ron


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2005/11/19 14:07Profile
Gery
Member



Joined: 2005/8/29
Posts: 95
0

 Re: Once Saved Always Saved



Dear Brethren,

Allow me to add to this post out of my personal experience.

I got saved 1992, out of a life of drugs and other religions. In 1999, I backslid so bad that I was using worse drugs than before 1992. Got involved in the Rave-scene, lived in adultery and fully denied the Lord Jesus for 5 years. In January this year, God was merciful to me. By His grace, my wife and I repented of our sin, and am now living for the Lord again.

I am sorry, but I can not imagine going to Heaven, if I was to die, during my fallen state. Some would say: "Maybe you were never saved in the first place?" I can assure you that 1992 was a true meeting with God, just as January 2005.

Imagine standing before God after dying of an overdose! Please, let us get real and honest about things here. Beware of the pitfall of Antinomiasm!

Rev 22:14-15 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord

I think for many who do believe in OSAS, it is an excuse to live in sin!

In His love for all of us,
Gery

 2005/11/19 15:36Profile
Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re: Just trying to think things out here..

Quote:
Just trying to think things out here...Does this mean salvation=regeneration? Doesn't salvation encompass much more than just regeneration? There is a deliverance from something implied in salvation, deliverance from what?



In the Scritpures "Salvation" is presented in different aspects. There is initial salvation which is "regeneration". That brings the Eternal Life of God into us and regenerates our dead spirit and makes us children of God.

Then there is daily salvation from sin, from self, from the world, and from satan. This is experienctal salvation and it is daily.

Then there is final salvation when the Lord returnes and transfigures this body of death into the likenss of His resurrected body.

There are then three aspects of slavation. Past, present, and future.

IN Philippians Paul says, "I know this will turn out for my salvation through your prayers and the abundant supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ". This is a present salvation in our present situation and experience and it is by the supply of the Spirit of Jesus christ.

The Children of Isreal were saved when they struck the blood and ate the Lamb in the passover. That is they were spared from God's judgement and by eating the Lamb they were strengthed to come out of Egypt.

This is initial salvation. It delivers us from condemnation. It justifies us through the Blood of the Lamb and also constitutes us with Christ in regeneration making us children of God by "eating of His flesh and drinking His blood" as the Lord said, "unless you do this you have no life in yourself." Eating the Lamb brings the Life of God into us regenerating us.

But then there is the practical salvation of comming out of the World, of passing through the red sea and passage through the wilderness. Finally there is the entering into the good land which is a type of Christ as our all sufficient good land, satisfaction, and dwelling place.

IN our experience we must pass through all these stages. But our going this way is predicated on our initial salvation which redeems us, justifies us, and brings God's eternal Life into us making us His children with HIs Life and His Nature.

Graftedbranch

 2005/11/19 15:39Profile
Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Quote:
I am sorry, but I can not imagine going to Heaven, if I was to die, during my fallen state. Some would say: "Maybe you were never saved in the first place?" I can assure you that 1992 was a true meeting with God, just as January 2005.



Brother, the issue is whether or not you were regenerated and had the Life of God within you. YOu cannot be justified by Christ and then lose it and be justifed again because salvation is not based in our works.

If you died in that state like the fornicater in 1st Corinthians of whom Paul 'Gave over to Satan for the distruction of his flesh that his spirit might be saved in that day", you would have suffered loss of reward and not enjoyed the riches of reigning with Christ in His Kindome. But you would be saved. You would not perish because you are His and you have His life within your spirit. You are redeemed and justified. but like this one in 1 cor: you repented and went on and you too are able to go on and mature in the Divine Life to become one who is an overcommer.

If we "cannot imangine it' it is only because we have a small view of the effacacy of Christ's Blood and the sufficiency of His redemption and His Eternal Salvation.


Our salvation is based in Christ alone and our union with Him and the application of His redeeming death and resurrection Lfie. It is not based in our performance.

This is not antinomianism. It is the revelation of the Word of God and because the Life of God is in you, you were not left in that state but God is faithful and will accomplish in you what He has begun. The very fact that you were not allowed to continue in your condition is evidence that you are Christ's and He leaves the 99 and goes after the One who has gone astray. No one is able to snatch you from His hand.

God's goal is not heaven but sons of God sharing in His glory as the New Jeruselem. You are His and "no one is able to snatch you out of His hand."

Graftedbranch

 2005/11/19 15:50Profile
crankbait68
Member



Joined: 2004/11/19
Posts: 5
Texas

 Re:

The Lord said "He that overcometh, I will not blot out his name out of the book of life." So, those who are saved but choose not to fight the good fight and overcome, their name will be blotted out.

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Exo 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.


_________________
Joel

 2005/11/19 17:56Profile
jimbob
Member



Joined: 2005/9/25
Posts: 131


 Re:

Crankbait,

This thread was supposed to be for testomonies for or against OSAS.

Jesus also said, "Therefore you are to be PERFECT, as your heavenly Father is perfect". Matt.5:48

Have you done that today? Have you perfectly obeyed in every thought and deed? You could always do more you know.

So what is the basis for your right standing before God? Have you overcome PERFECTLY today? If you were to die this very night what would be your justification before the Father? Your good works, or Christs work on the Cross?

"Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book." That leaves you and I out then doesn't it?

Our rightesousness at any given moment is derived from our relationship to Him, none of our good deeds will add to that, for apart from Him all our righteous deeds are but filthy rags.

You are saved by grace through faith and that not of yourself it is a gift of God. You can't add to that, try as you may.

 2005/11/19 18:31Profile
lamuskrat
Member



Joined: 2005/10/3
Posts: 117
Gonzales, La

 Re:

A word study is needed here. The actual translation for this isn't "perfect" as was translated in our english. In the scriptural text (manuscripts) it means to be "complete" and "mature", yet with our limited vocabulary it was translated as "perfect". In our definition it would mean "flawless" (like a diamond), or without spot or blemish, which is not attainble till we receive our new bodys and get to heaven.


_________________
Mike Androne

 2005/11/19 18:56Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: more thoughts

Quote:
I got saved 1992, out of a life of drugs and other religions. In 1999, I backslid so bad that I was using worse drugs than before 1992. Got involved in the Rave-scene, lived in adultery and fully denied the Lord Jesus for 5 years. In January this year, God was merciful to me. By His grace, my wife and I repented of our sin, and am now living for the Lord again.



Gery, there is nothing in your testimony here that I would use to form any doctrine regarding salvation. John 3 talks about the Spirit blowing and we can't see it or understand what it is doing. I simply cannot know from what you wrote what the SPIRIT was doing in your life, though I know that he was working ALL ALONG. God had his eye on you. And he never let you go your own stuborn ways, did he? He is not finished with you yet. PTL

Salvation is a divine work, and God has our entire lives to do his work within us. I also, by the way do not hold to the "what if... "theology ie "what if you should have died .... " There are no "what if's" in God's plans. Would he really helplessly let someone just slip through his fingers? Would he let someone go to hell, if he knew that they were going to cry out for his salvation? He is not willing that any should perish. He is very patient.

We must remember that there are many who go from the worldly sins into the sins of hypocrisy. The latter they look very good, very saved. They may have "gone forward", "asked Jesus into their heart" and adopted all the ways of a good Christian. But that doesn't mean they were born from above.

When the Spirit gives new birth, that is, birth from above, they have new life, abundant life. They have a new master. They have the Spirit speaking to them, guiding them, interpreting Scripture to them. etc etc. I have to admit that I have seen a lot of cleaned-up people, they were perhaps saved from sin, but they still are trusting in themselves for their salvation. They still remain blind and in unbelief. They are like lost Israel in the desert. I was one of them. But, God, thankfully, brought me to true life in him. And there is a very big difference!! I would have never known those earlier years that there could have been something so very different.

It's like this: "How can you ever know what color is if you have never experienced it? Only when you can see it, then you realize that you really did NOT see it before, though you thought you did.
Diane


_________________
Diane

 2005/11/19 22:52Profile
jimbob
Member



Joined: 2005/9/25
Posts: 131


 Re:

Lamuskrat,

Okay then, you must be "complete" and "mature" AS YOUR HEAVENLY FATHER is complete and mature. Anyone out there do that today?

 2005/11/19 22:55Profile
JFEdgar
Member



Joined: 2005/10/21
Posts: 133
Wellington, Ohio

 Re:

I know this is futile...

but im going to ask one more time that people only give their testimonies as to why they do or do not believe...

Please do not debate with the other members over their testimonies.


_________________
Joe E

 2005/11/20 12:32Profile





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