SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Once Saved Always Saved

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 Next Page )
PosterThread
Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Quote:
How does Philemon line up?



Philemon is really a sort of addendum to the epistle to the Colossians. Philemon was an elder in Colossi.

In Philemon we have a practical application of Paul's teaching in Colossians. That is, the One New Man.

In Philemon we have the practical application of the abolition of all the distinctions of race and social status in Christ which is revealed in in Colossians.

"In christ there is neither Jew nor Greek, Slave or free man."

Philemon is a wonderful and practical application of the high truths revealed in Colossians.

Graftedbranch

 2005/11/30 20:55Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

Quote:


John 14:16,17
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 7:39
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Now I know John wrote this alot later, but still we hear that Christ thought that God would come and dwell within you!
We know that Christ is God too, so it doesn't seem to me that new.

You cannot make the Comforter which is the Holy Spirit, Christ. It was not the Holy Spirit that died on the Cross it was the all Man and all God Jesus Christ Himself.

Why did the Comforter the Holy Spirit have to come? To teach Who this Christ is that is born again in us by the Incorruptable Seed of the Father. John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: This is what the word testify means in the Greek; 3140. martureo
Search for G3140 in KJVSL
marturew martureo mar-too-reh'-o

from 3144; to be a witness, i.e. testify (literally or figuratively):--charge, give (evidence), bear record, have (obtain, of) good (honest) report, be well reported of, testify, give (have) testimony, (be, bear, give, obtain) witness.

Jesus has yet many things to say to us and the only one that would teach us what these things are is the Holy Spirit who will reveal Christ in you the Hope of Glory, Paul's Gospel. John 16:12-13 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for He shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak: and He will shew you things to come.

If The Holy Spirit will not speak of Himself who will He speak of? Yes, Yes, Yes, Jesus Christ is who the Holy Spirit will reveal to us. Who is on this earth right now and doing what the Father sent Him to do? It is not Christ because Christ is in you in Spirit, your new life, Satan out and Christ in. John 16:27-28 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved Me, and have believed that I came out from God. I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father. The Holy Spirit is left to teach us who this Christ in us and the Father also is and what relationship we now have, Our Father, and our Lord and First born Brother Jesus Christ.

John 17:1-3 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

John 17:20-26 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

This is the Prayer the Father is answering by the Comforter, Teacher, the Holy Spirit is answering the Prayer of Jesus Christ Himself.

Don't try to make the Holy Spirit, Christ, it will only commingle the Truth of the Word and confuse all who Hear. The Holy Spirit is the only One who is on this earth doing the Work of the Father prayed for By Jesus Christ Himself.
John 16:7-14 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Don't read this then come up with your own answer to it being wrong, but proof it like Bereans and use the Word to make it wrong or right. Be slow to speak but quick to listen.

If you don't see the truth then ask the Holy Spirit to proof it and show me wrong. I speak as Paul, the truth that is revealed in me by Him that sent Him. Making Christ in you the Hope of Glory the most Glory that any created being has ever or will ever receive. Amen.

In Christ: Phillip



_________________
Phillip

 2005/11/30 21:19Profile
Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Quote:
Don't try to make the Holy Spirit, Christ, it will only commingle the Truth of the Word and confuse all who Hear. The Holy Spirit is the only One who is on this earth doing the Work of the Father prayed for By Jesus Christ Himself.



Brother, if the Holy Spirit is in us and not Christ, then how is "Christ in us"?

IN 2 Corinthians 3 Paul says, "Now the Lord is the Spirit." the lord here in the context is the Lord Jesus Christ.

And in 1 cor 15:45 Paul says, "The last Adam (Christ) became (in resurrection) a Life Giving Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ. IN the New Testament He is called: the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of Jesus, the Spirit of Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, The Spirit of Holiness, the Life Giving Spirit, The Spirit of Life, and in Galatians He is just called, "The Spirit".

You cannot separate the Spirit from Christ, He is the Spirit of Christ. He is Christ as the Spirit.

He is 'Christ in you, the Hope of Glory.

In the same chapter where He said, "I will send another Comforter" He also said, "I will come to you". and "He is with you and shall be in you". Who was with them? Christ in the flesh. Who would be in them? Christ as the Spirit, Christ as the Spirit is the "another comforter who was with them and would be in them." He would leave them for a short while as he went to the cross. But he returned to them in Resurrecion and breathed Himself into them as the Life Giving Spirit.

This is not an odd or unusual way for the Lord to speak. He often spoke of Himself in the third person saying, "The Son of Man this or the Son of Man that. This was a very usual mode of His speaking. Whan He said, "He is with you and shall be in you" He was speaking in the third person. He was speaking of Himself. He finally said, "I and the Father will come to you and make our abode with you." He made it quite clear.

Graftedbranch

 2005/11/30 21:43Profile
GaryE
Member



Joined: 2005/4/26
Posts: 376
Mifflinburg, Pennsylvania

 Re:


I'm still wondering the answer to the question that PreachParsly asked Christinyou.

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::


Christinyou said:
Quote:

He did not have this revelation of Paul and no wonder he James was unable to see his own 1/2 brother born again in him.
-------------------------------------------------
PreachParsley then said:
Quote:

Am I reading this wrong, or are you saying that James wasn't born again? Who is 'him?'

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

In Christ,
GaryE


_________________
Gary Eckenroth

 2005/11/30 22:11Profile
Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Quote:
He did not have this revelation of Paul and no wonder he James was unable to see his own 1/2 brother born again in him.



I believe brother Phillip is saying here that James was born of God but did not have the full revelation of all it implies. He is suggesting that Christ was in him but he did not see it clearly in the New Testament Light.

Graftedbranch

 2005/11/30 22:23Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

Graftedbranch, I agree with you in every way except how the Holy Spirit and Christ are manifest to us, yes they are one and yet separate in how they deal with the Born Again Believer and the unsaved.

If the Holy Spirit was upon all men of God which were God's chosen people Israel and the Holy Spirit and Christ are the same Person of the Godhead then Jesus Christ was upon them also. I don't see Him named anywhere in the old testament as the Named Savior. If Jesus was the Holy Spirit then the Holy Spirit was on the Cross also. The Father is also on the Cross if this implementing the Holy Spirit as Christ, also as the Father, then all died and who was left to raise Jesus Christ from the dead. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are only separated by what The Father says, not separated by Who They are, for They are One God, but separated only by what the Father as Father of the Son and dispenser of the Holy Spirit says. That is why Jesus said He had the Power to lay down His life and take it up again. That is why my spirit is now the Spirit of Christ and not the spirit of Satan. That is why my soul is now ruled by the Holy Spirit my Teacher. That is why the Father now abides with the Son and Their abode is with us. In truth All were on the Cross but they all three had different manifestations of what was happening to all. The Son shed His Blood from the Flesh, The Father watched and accepted the Sacrifice and the Holy Spirit raised Jesus Christ from the dead. That is what scripture says. We must keep Them separate for our understanding of God's Plan to save all those that would believe. Then we can understand How our spirit is now One with the Spirit of Christ and How the Holy Spirit is the Teacher of this Truth and How the Father is waiting for His Children to Join Him in His House. That is why if we in our finite minds commingle The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in how the God Head works we are never going to understand the Things the Holy Spirit will show us or How our Life is now the Life of Christ, or How the Father considers us son's of God. That is why the Holy Spirit has been misused in the Church and How Christ is not the center of salvation and new life, and God is just Somebody sitting up in heaven waiting to destroy anyone who makes a mistake, especially to the new believer, in essence this is the same as commingling the Law and Grace, which makes both of them of no avail, Law is perfect and Grace is perfect only if you keep them separate, yet they are from the Same God. Let us rightly divide the Word and see ourselves as body, soul, and spirit and how God works in all three.

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Hbr 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

This is how God has chosen while we are on this earth as finite and in Christ with the Holy Spirit as Teacher and God as our Father to reveal Himself as Christ in us the Hope of Glory, and beginning to see the things of the Kingdom we are already in, in Heavenly Places. 1 Corinthians 1:29-31 That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Our God is one God and there is no Other. Amen.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2005/11/30 23:56Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

Quote: by my brother Graftedbranch,

""I believe brother Phillip is saying here that James was born of God but did not have the full revelation of all it implies. He is suggesting that Christ was in him but he did not see it clearly in the New Testament Light.""

Amen. If James wrote his epistle earlier than Paul's first epistle and Paul was the first one to be revealed of the Christ in him, then James drew upon all that he knew, the Law and his fleshly Brother, as we can plainly see all that James said is plainly and most concurrent to his teaching absolutely Jewish and good for living a good life before man. James written from 45 to 51 and Paul's first writings from 52 to 53.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2005/12/1 0:02Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
I would say that this reality is the underlyng reality in all the epistles. That is it is true of every apostle and every believer. But its' clear and concise revealation is unique to Paul.

Again, this is only your (LR) slant on things. The fact that only one man records these things is not a proof that he was the only one who had the revelation.“If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: How that by [u]revelation[/u] he made known unto me the [u]mystery[/u]; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as [u]it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit[/u]; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:” (Eph. 3:2-6, KJVS)Here Paul says plainly that his was not a unique revelation but that it was 'revealed unto his holy apostles (including James!) and prophets'. This revelation is that referred to my Paul as a mystery in Colossians where he states...“Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body’s sake, which is the church: Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this [u]mystery[/u] among the Gentiles; which is [u]Christ in you, the hope of glory[/u]:” (Col. 1:24-27, KJVS) So it is plain that the 'Christ in you' is part of the same revelation to which he alludes in Ephesians. However in Ephesians he states clearly that (all) the apostles and prophets received this revelation.

The fact that Paul was chosen to declare it in his letters by no means shows that he was the sole source of this revelation. This is nothing more than the sectarianism of Corinthians... I am of Paul. Who is Paul, who is Apollos? “Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?” (1Cor. 3:5, KJVS) It's 'clear and concise revelation' is NOT unique to Paul; the privilege of enshrining in scripture is especially but not uniquely his.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/12/1 2:54Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

2Co 3:8
Verse 8. How shall not the ministration of the Spirit. This is an argument from the lesser of the Holy Spirit upon you, to the greater of the Holy Spirit in you. Several things in it are worthy of notice.
(1.) The proper contrast to the "ministration of death," (2Co 3:7,) would have been "ministration of life." But Paul chose rather to call it the "ministration of the Spirit "--as the source of the life life giving Spirit of Christ in you the Hope of Glory, the same resurrection Power of of Him who raised Christ from the dead, or as conferring higher dignity on the coming of the Promised Spirit at Pentecost, than to have called it simply the ministration of life.

(2.) By the "Spirit" here is manifestly meant the Holy Spirit; and the whole phrase denotes the gospel that Paul refers to or the preaching of the gospel, by which eminently the Holy Spirit is imparted as Teacher.

(3.) It is the high honour of the gospel ministry, that it is the means by which the Holy Spirit is imparted to men, as of, "is with you but shall be in you." It is designed to secure the salvation of men by His agency; and-it is through the ministry Christ that the Holy Spirit is imparted, the heart renewed, and the soul saved. The work of Christ's ministry in us is, therefore, the most important and honourable in which man can engage.

In Christ: Phillip

Be rather glorious?

(1.) Because that of Moses tended to death; this to life.

(2.) Because that was engraven on stone; this is engraven in the heart, by the Spirit of the Word Himself, Jesus Christ.

(3.) Because the stone tablets were the mere giving of a law; this is connected with the renovating influences of the Holy Spirit Teaching the Christ in us, as our New Life, born of the Spirit of Christ and the Father's Seed which gives us our title, son's of God.

(4.) Because the Law and the Commandments were soon to pass away. All the magnificence of the scene was soon to vanish. But this new life is to remain. Its influence and effect are to be everlasting, as of Christ, I will never leave you, and the Spirit be in you forever. It is to stretch into eternity; and its main glory is to be witnessed in souls renewed and saved, and amidst the splendours of heaven. The work of the Spirit of God on the heart of a rational being, is much more important than any dead characters which can be engraved on insensible stoney hearts, much more by the Heart of Christ born again in our hearts.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2005/12/1 3:00Profile
npautsky
Member



Joined: 2003/9/10
Posts: 82
Texas

 Re: Once Saved Always Saved

Hello All,

I have come to terms with the fact that people sincerely hold many different viewpoints on various subjects. Somewhere along the line we start running into people who will say "Oh these folks believe this way but the other folks believe this other way" and then seem to take up the attitude that the truth probably can't be known on this matter because there are so many on both sides of the argument. Then the search for the truth ends up neglected in favor of diplomacy.

I have an open question about OSAS to anyone who wants to answer. What is in fact the truth? How do you explain this part of the word of God?

Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.



Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, [u][b]and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree[/b][/u] ;
Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, [u][b]if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. [/b][/u]

How can anyone deny what this is saying? Here is something else to think about.

Luk 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
Luk 12:41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?
Luk 12:42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
Luk 12:43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Luk 12:44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
Luk 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

What is the point of this story to you?
Isn't a disciple of Jesus the subject of this story, and doesn't he end up suffering the fate of the unbelievers? How do you deal with the explicit teaching in these verses? I understand there are other verses in the Bible, but how do you deal with these?


_________________
Noel Pautsky

 2005/12/1 3:01Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy