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PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Christinyou said:

Quote:
He did not have this revelation of Paul and no wonder he James was unable to see his own 1/2 brother born again in him.



Am I reading this wrong, or are you saying that James wasn't born again? Who is 'him?'

Quote:

GB Quote:
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but there is no reference to His death on the Cross, His resurrection, and our union in spirit through faith in Him.
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How does Philemon line up?



I asked this earlier. Should Philemon not be taken seriously? Does it mention all the things "needed" to be a "good new testement" book? I know Philemon is a very short letter but I'm trying to see if there is suppose to be a certain doctrine mentioned in each book of the Bible to make it "new testment."


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Josh Parsley

 2005/11/30 15:45Profile
Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Quote:
Paul received a 'new gospel'!?! Thus is your folly manifest! John got the gospel from Paul!?! This is where hyper-dispensationalism leads us.



Brother, I agree this is somewhat of an overstatement. Pauls Gospel was the same gospel of Christ crucified and risen and repentance and faith in His Name that the other Apostles preached but Pauls' "full gospel" incorporates many things which are not seen in the others, but God though Paul revealed the full revelation of Christ's Person and work and the nature of the Church as the Mystery of Christ which is not seen in the other writings.

Only does Paul say, "in the fullness of Time, God was well pleased to reveal His Son in me that I might preach Him.

Graftedbranch

 2005/11/30 15:50Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Name that the other Apostles preached but Pauls' "full gospel" incorporates many things which are not seen in the others, but God though Paul revealed the full revelation of Christ's Person and work and the nature of the Church as the Mystery of Christ which is not seen in the other writings.



The problem also with this view is that folk latch onto this doctrine to butress their argument that repentance is not necessary for salvation. I have dealt with this extensively with family who attended a certain popular seminary in our area. They take sola feday to its ultimate conclusion and preach a Gospel that does not result in the Born Again experience.




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Robert Wurtz II

 2005/11/30 16:53Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Only does Paul say, "in the fullness of Time, God was well pleased to reveal His Son in me that I might preach Him.

You have reversed the order of these statements and missed out half a book, otherwise this is a fairly accurate quotation.“But [u]when the fulness of the time was come[/u], God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.” (Gal. [u][b]4[/b]:4-5[/u], KJVS)

“But when [u]it pleased God[/u], who separated me from my mother’s womb, and called me by his grace, [u]To reveal his Son in me[/u], that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:” (Gal. [u][b]1[/b]:15-16[/u], KJVS)The revelation of Christ 'within' Paul is a key NT truth but to imply that no-one had received such a revelation or experience previously is foolish and unbiblical. You may also notice, if you read the verses in the correct order, that Paul's reference to 'the fulness of time' has to do with Christ's incarnation not Paul's regeneration.


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Ron Bailey

 2005/11/30 17:34Profile
Graftedbranc
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Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Quote:
The revelation of Christ 'within' Paul is a key NT truth but to imply that no-one had received such a revelation or experience previously is foolish and unbiblical. You may also notice, if you read the verses in the correct order, that Paul's reference to 'the fulness of time' has to do with Christ's incarnation not Paul's regeneration.



Brother, I appreciate what you have said. But whether of not anyone else had this revelation, no one else stated it in such a way. Christ in us' is a unique phrase of Paul. I may be mistaken but I do not find this phrase in any other's epistles. It is a unique phrase to Paul. There is no lack of significance in this.

Tell me or show me in any other's writings if "Christ in us" is mentioned or expressed. I don't believe it is. IN Peter? in Jude? I would say that in John's epistles this reality is implied and known but not expressed in this way.

I would say that this reality is the underlyng reality in all the epistles. That is it is true of every apostle and every believer. But its' clear and concise revealation is unique to Paul.

Graftedbranch

 2005/11/30 18:00Profile
Warrior4Jah
Member



Joined: 2005/7/5
Posts: 382
The Netherlands

 Re:

Quote:
Well, read Paul's epistles and cataloge the things revealed in them that are not spoken of by the others in thier epistles. Those are the things He "brought to the table" so to speak.

And as good members of the body of Christ the others surely recieved Paul's revelation and entered into them to one degree or another. This is the principle of the Body. Not everyone is an eye, not everyone is a mouth, not everyone is a hand.


Paul's epistles are important as it covers (almost) everything from Christian faith in a written form. This doesn't mean Paul was the only one nor the first who had specific insights or revelations from the Holy Spirit, but he was the one who wrote/dictated them.

So I don't see how cataloging the things Paul wrote which are not found in other epistles equals being new revealed Truth.

If so then it would almost sound like all had to come to one man who would then act as a 'middleman' between them and the Holy Spirit.
I don't think this was the case.

God bless!
Jonathan


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Jonathan Veldhuis

 2005/11/30 18:06Profile
Warrior4Jah
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Joined: 2005/7/5
Posts: 382
The Netherlands

 Re:

Quote:
Tell me or show me in any other's writings if "Christ in us" is mentioned or expressed. I don't believe it is. IN Peter? in Jude? I would say that in John's epistles this reality is implied and known but not expressed in this way.

I would say that this reality is the underlyng reality in all the epistles. That is it is true of every apostle and every believer. But its' clear and concise revealation is unique to Paul.



Alto not adressed at me, what about:

[b]John 14:16,17[/b]
[i]16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.[/i]

[b]John 7:39[/b]
[i]39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)[/i]

Now I know John wrote this alot later, but still we hear that Christ thought that God would come and dwell within you!
We know that Christ is God too, so it doesn't seem to me that new.


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Jonathan Veldhuis

 2005/11/30 18:15Profile
Graftedbranc
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Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Quote:
If so then it would almost sound like all had to come to one man who would then act as a 'middleman' between them and the Holy Spirit.



Brother, God has chosen to reveal his truth through this apostle and that apostle. We all have to come to the scriptures to recieve the revelation of the Truth of Christ.

Are the apostles 'middle men'. No. They are vessels chosen of God to reveal to us the Mysteries hidden from the ages. And the Spirit within us bears witness to the revelation which God through His apostles gave us.

They are not a substitute for the Spirit, but instruments of the Spirit to bring us into the same light and same experience of Christ which they enjoyed.

Graftedbranch

 2005/11/30 18:35Profile
MrBillPro
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3311
Texas

 Re:

O thank you Lord for giving me the wisdom just to sit back and read sometimes. :-P


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Bill

 2005/11/30 18:39Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

Quote: How does Philemon line up?

Just like the rest of Paul's letters. The in Christ position is very plain. Philemon 1:6 That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.

Again Paul by his own hand. Philemon 1:19 I Paul have written it with mine own hand, I will repay it: albeit I do not say to thee how thou owest unto me even thine own self besides.

Paul has given Philemon the reason to receive Philemon's own run away slave back as he would receive Paul and the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.
Philemon owes Paul his own purchased life as a slave of Jesus Christ to Paul because Paul has birthed in Philemon, Paul's own Gospel of Christ in you the Hope of Glory which is the Gospel of God by His Son revealed in Paul, that the world might know this mystery through Paul, revealed directly to him by Christ Jesus Himself.

Ephesians 3:5-8 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

Then Paul again says where he received this Gospel. Galatians 1:9-12 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

How can we get around this final Gospel that Jesus Christ revealed direct to Paul chosen from his mother's womb to reveal Christ in Paul and in all who believe and are birthed by the Seed of the Father, Christ in you the hope of Glory.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2005/11/30 20:36Profile





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