SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
See Opportunities to Serve with SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Born Again By What Means

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | 41 | 42 | 43 | 44 | 45 | 46 | 47 | 48 | 49 | 50 | 51 | 52 | 53 | 54 | 55 | 56 | 57 | 58 | 59 | 60 | 61 | 62 | 63 | 64 | 65 Next Page )
PosterThread
becauseHEliv
Member



Joined: 2006/11/13
Posts: 9
Southeast Texas

 Re:

I'm new and had to go back and start from the begining of the thread...

but I have this to add...

dorcas on 2005/11/14 2:19 on page 5 make the first mention of the thought I want to bring into view….

2nd Corintians 3:6 …. The letter killeth, the spirit maketh alive!

What Does It Mean To Be Born Again?

"There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again." -John 3:1-7

there are TWO BIRTHS.

The "first" birth is the PHYSICAL BIRTH when you were born into this world from your mother and father. When the Bible speaks of being "born of water," it is speaking about the physical birth (NOT baptism).

The "second" birth is a SPIRITUAL BIRTH, which means to be born of the "Spirit" (God's Holy Spirit).

(1st Timothy 3:16). Our spirit is dead in trespasses and sin the Bible says...

"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:" -Ephesians 2:1,2

The unsaved person cannot understand God... The letter killeth,

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." -1st Corinthians 2:14

In the Old Testament they knew about the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit moved on men of old, they prophesied, they did mighty works of Yahweh but they only knew in part. The Holy Spirit had not fully come…. Acts 2:1-4 "When the Day of Pentecost had fully come,, Yeshua had been Glorified and seated at the right hand of His Father, now mankind could know Yahweh in a depth unattainable till that day.

Now the Spirit could be made alive in the hearts of mankind, now Jeremiah 31:33 could be fulfilled!

Then a little later rookie on 2005/11/17 11:08 on page 7 keyed in on… Luke 24:46

Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And you are witnesses of these things. 49 Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high

And then Christinyou on 2005/11/23 22:27 on page 13 brings up Pentecost an when it to place 50 days after Passover…. This is a very important point… the first Pentecost represented the giving of the Law, written on tables of stone, representing the hearts of men before the realization of the true Passover, the death, burial and resurrection of Yeshua.

Some have suggested the Old Testament saints were saved, this is impossible for there was not yet the LAMB of Yahweh slain for man, only the promise of the coming Savior.

Jeremiah 31:33
But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel: After those days, says the Lord, I will put My law within them, and on their hearts will I write it; and I will be their God, and they will be My people.

Hebrews 8:10
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will imprint My laws upon their minds, even upon their innermost thoughts and understanding, and engrave them upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Yeshua was the “First Fruits” !

How could anyone have been saved before His work was finished?


 2007/11/27 10:28Profile









 Re: Born Again By What Means



Jeff said

Quote:
I know from Scripture that this man knew the Holy Spirit...I find no other way declared in Scripture by which man can satisfy the law of God.

This is true, but it is also true that no-one satisfied the law of God until Jesus did. So whatever David experienced, it was not what we experience when we ourselves become the righteousness of God in Him (2 Cor 5:21).

Brother, there is no dispute with the claims scripture makes for David, but to give his experiences, 1000BC, New Testament terminology which did not appear and had never been used before Jesus or Pentecost, is guesswork.

I'm not resisting it out of badness. We cannot be sure he experienced what we do, the more especially since he doesn't put it in our language either.

 2007/11/27 18:39
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Dale asks:


Quote:
How could anyone have been saved before His work was finished?



Is this what you mean by being "saved?"


1Cor. 15:12 Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. 14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. 15 Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up—if in fact the dead do not rise. 16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. 17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! 18 Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable.

1Cor. 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

Paul writes about these...18 Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.

Who are these who have fallen asleep in Christ?

Paul identifies the starting point beginning with Adam.


I know from Scripture, that Job also looked forward to being "saved" according to the promise....

23 “Oh, that my words were written!
Oh, that they were inscribed in a book!
24 That they were engraved on a rock
With an iron pen and lead, forever!
25 For I know that my Redeemer lives,
And He shall stand at last on the earth;
26 And after my skin is destroyed, this I know,
That in my flesh I shall see God,
27 Whom I shall see for myself,
And my eyes shall behold, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!

How did Job know he was "saved" ?

Your brother in Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/11/28 1:27Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Sister Lyn writes...


Quote:
Brother, there is no dispute with the claims scripture makes for David, but to give his experiences, 1000BC, New Testament terminology which did not appear and had never been used before Jesus or Pentecost, is guesswork.



2 Samuel 22

1 Now these are the last words of David.
Thus says David the son of Jesse;
Thus says the man raised up on high,
The anointed of the God of Jacob,
And the sweet psalmist of Israel:
2 “The Spirit of the LORD spoke by me,
And His word was on my tongue.
3 The God of Israel said,
The Rock of Israel spoke to me:
“He who rules over men must be just,
Ruling in the fear of God.

Here Scripture states that the Holy Spirit gave these words to David...who is the Rock of Israel?

Then we have this testimony of David...
5 “Although my house is not so with God,
Yet He has made with me an everlasting covenant,
Ordered in all things and secure.
For this is all my salvation and all my desire;
Will He not make it increase?

What kind of "salvation" has been promised to David?

These also have this hope...
Heb. 11:32 And what more shall I say? For the time would fail me to tell of Gideon and Barak and Samson and Jephthah, also of David and Samuel and the prophets: 33 who through faith subdued kingdoms, worked righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, became valiant in battle, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. 35 Women received their dead raised to life again.

Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. 36 Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment. 37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, were tempted, were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented— 38 of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth.


Why did they suffer so great a persecution? What does Scripture identify as the source of the enmity between these who live by faith? How does the spirit of Satan and the Spirit of God create this ongoing enmity between the seed of Satan and the Seed of the woman?

Your brother in Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/11/28 1:46Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Job 29:
1 Job further continued his discourse, and said:
2 “Oh, that I were as in months past,
As in the days when God watched over me;
3 When His lamp shone upon my head,
And when by His light I walked through darkness;
4 Just as I was in the days of my prime,
When the friendly counsel of God was over my tent;
5 When the Almighty was yet with me,
When my children were around me;
6 When my steps were bathed with cream,
And the rock poured out rivers of oil for me!

What is Job testifying about in this section of Scripture?

Is our testimony 'bathed with cream" because the rock poured out rivers of oil" for us?

This is not speaking of the covenant made with Moses on Mount Sinai....

In Christ
jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/11/28 1:56Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:




Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip Wrote:
It did not according to the scripture until the enmity came. When did enmity come?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jeff wrote:
The first example given to us in Scripture is the story of Cain and Abel...

"scripture is very clear on this matter."





Yes, Able in the works righteousness of the Law of God and being able to keep the Law by the un- incarnate Christ and the election of God.

The Believer's in the Works of Christ become manifest by the incarnate Christ, full of Grace and Faith and Truth, that is Christ birthed in the Believer, which is the Mystery even Christ spoke about and revealed to Paul.

Mark 4:11-12 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the ((((mystery of the kingdom of God:)))) but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

The revelation to Paul was not a parable, it was evidence of the Birthing of God in the believer, the risen Christ, the Seed of the Father in a love act that Only God could do after the Birth, Ministry, The Cross, The Death, The Resurrection, and The Return of Christ Himself birthed in the Believer. Able was a works righteousness act that pleased the Father, not the birthing of the un-incarnate Christ in Able, for this could not happen until the fullness of Time was come.

Again and Again and Again:

Colossians 1:25-29 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Galatians 4:4-7 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, (added; "And they would not")that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

Now you are a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

Able could not be a son, because the Seed of Christ could not be birthed in Him.

Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

Then He became Lord of Able.

Hbr 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Able will serve the living God after the tribulation in the Millennial Kingdom of Christ. Able, if He is one of the Elect will be with; 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

The only way Able could know this was when Christ went talk to those that were resurrected and spoken to after His resurrection.

Matthew 27:52-53 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

1 Peter 3:18-20 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Able could be one of these spirits, but only by the mercy and election of God.

In Christ: Phillip



_________________
Phillip

 2007/11/28 3:15Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote;


Quote:
The revelation to Paul was not a parable, it was evidence of the Birthing of God in the believer, the risen Christ, the Seed of the Father



I would like to pursue this thought further...

In Galatians 3:
16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ.

Is this what you mean when you say...


Quote:
it was evidence of the Birthing of God in the believer, the risen Christ, the Seed of the Father



Would you say, that the "birthing" is accomplished by the Holy Spirit?

Your brother in Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/11/28 4:01Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

Birthing takes a Father. The Holy Spirit is not the Father. The Holy Spirit is the sealer and the spirit conformation of the Act. Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Matthew 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

God is the Father and the Power of the conception of Jesus Christ His Son. The Holy Spirit is the deliverer of that Power and teacher of the truth of Christ in you the Hope of Glory.

Luke 1:30-35 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Overshadow: Strong's Greek Dictionary
1982. episkiazo
Search for G1982 in KJVSL
episkiazw episkiazo ep-ee-skee-ad'-zo
from 1909 and a derivative of 4639; to cast a shade upon, i.e. (by analogy) to envelop in a haze of brilliancy; figuratively, to invest with preternatural influence:--overshadow.

From this word: Strong's Greek Dictionary
1909. epi
Search for G1909 in KJVSL
epi epi ep-ee'
a primary preposition; properly, meaning superimposition (of time, place, order, etc.), as a relation of distribution (with the genitive case), i.e. over, upon, etc.; of rest (with the dative case) at, on, etc.; of direction (with the accusative case) towards, upon, etc.:--about (the times), above, after, against, among, as long as (touching), at, beside, X have charge of, (be-, (where-))fore, in (a place, as much as, the time of, -to), (because) of, (up-)on (behalf of), over, (by, for) the space of, through(-out), (un-)to(-ward), with. In compounds it retains essentially the same import, at, upon, etc. (literally or figuratively).

Just like "God with us" in being born again, so also "God with us" in Mary conceiving in her womb, Jesus Christ the Son of God.

Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Merry Christmas. We are truly enveloped in a haze of brilliance. "Christ in you the Hope of Glory":

That brilliance liveth in me: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/11/28 14:50Profile









 Re: Born Again By What Means



Jeff asked

Quote:
Here Scripture states that the Holy Spirit gave these words to David...who is the Rock of Israel?

Paul says the Rock which followed them was Christ. My point is, one can only change the name of the Rock of Israel to Christ, after Christ has been revealed.
Quote:
What does Scripture identify as the source of the enmity between these who live by faith?

Do you mean, 'these who live by faith' and those who don't live by faith?

The way I see it, some people value their relationship with God and others value their relationship with sin and death. This is not to say that those who value their sin, cannot repent, nor that those who value their walk with God, cannot sin.

Quote:
How does the spirit of Satan and the Spirit of God create this ongoing enmity between the seed of Satan and the Seed of the woman?

Surely this is not a matter of either of them creating anything. The status quo is that Satan made a serious error of judgement when he decided to challenge God, and the damage he did to the image of God in man is always with us. Those who walked with God were still capable of sin and sinned. Only by self-discipline could they be declared 'blameless'.

There's a bit of [i]deja vu[/i] in David's life, when he had intended to kill Nabal, but being prevented, yet inviting Abigail to become his wife some months later. [i]Years[/i] later, he is not so moral, and actually commits adultery [i]before[/i] arranging for the inconvenient husband to disappear.

 2007/11/28 19:28









 Re: Born Again By What Means


Jeff asked

Quote:
What is Job testifying about in this section of Scripture?

Well, I notice it says Job 'continued his parable' in the KJV, and to me, it reads like prophecy. So with regard to your second question

Quote:
Is our testimony 'bathed with cream" because the rock poured out rivers of oil" for us?

I believe so. But it's always very difficult to make this kind of distinction... at least, I find it difficult... Others seem to be better at seeing clearly what their testimony would be without the Holy Spirit. I wouldn't have one, I don't think.

Quote:
This is not speaking of the covenant made with Moses on Mount Sinai....

I agree. Also I must say I've always found Job hard-going, but reading several chapters in order to consider my answer to your question, it is not speaking of Job's personal life, either. EDIT: (gasp) :-o

 2007/11/28 19:50





©2002-2021 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy