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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Born Again By What Means

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 Re: Born Again By What Means


Phillip said

Quote:
Thank you Linn

Thank you.

I learn from you, too.

I'd heard about 'Christ in you', of course, but it doesn't make any sense until one understands His death. That's one thing which has become much more clear to me since I came to SI.


8-)

 2007/11/8 15:24
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
It has taken me 7 years to get where I am in Christ. Like Paul I still have much to learn.
The basic foundation has to be worked on every day and know that Christ is doing His part by His Spirit that is in me, which I now want to hear and see, because of the revelation of His Life as my life. The more I learn about Him in me the more I trust Him to bring me to the place Paul travailed over, that is until Christ be formed in me unto the completeness that Christ has given me by grace and faith. I can only receive that amount that He is willing to give. How much is that? Phl 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.



Brother, this is what I have been pressing for....in your testimony. When we teach and exhort the brethren we must be willing to "reveal ourselves" to others as He has revealed His truth to us. We must not hide the lamp that has shown us His glory in us, but must invest it in others. That is where doctrines stop and love begins.

God Bless

Your brother in Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/11/9 3:12Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Sis wrote:

Quote:
Many brethren in Christ seem to have been taught - or to have got the idea somehow - that the Spirit is going to do the work of mortification for them.



Psalm 119

28 My soul melts from heaviness;
Strengthen me according to Your word.
29 Remove from me the way of lying,
And grant me Your law graciously.

35 Make me walk in the path of Your commandments,
For I delight in it.
36 Incline my heart to Your testimonies,
And not to covetousness.
37 Turn away my eyes from looking at worthless things,
And revive me in Your way.

I believe the Spirit will lead one to understand what is not pleasing to the Lord. In the above sections of Scripture we find that this man has recognized these issues in his life. He also knows the goodness of God based on his past experiences. He also knows that in himself there is no hope of overcoming these sin issues. He therefore prays to God to deliver him from these issues which come between him and God. His desire is that God would further perfect his love for Him. Self is given up unto life found in God.

For those who take His yoke upon them, His burden is light, because of the joy and peace that comes when we turn at His rebuke. Turning becomes easier and easier as He imparts to us the knowledge of His ways.

God Bless
Your brother in Christ....always....


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/11/9 3:25Profile









 Re: Born Again By What Means


Jeff said

Quote:
He also knows that in himself there is no hope of overcoming these sin issues. He therefore prays to God to deliver him from these issues which come between him and God.

Brother, I agree there is a place for this under the New Covenant also - that cry for deliverance which we cannot effect for ourselves (and that it does not always relate to a deeper experience of the cross), but the [i]fact[/i] is that the psalmist did not have the Holy Spirit in the way that we do, to help [u]us[/u] [u]do[/u] what is right from the beginning of new birth.

We, as born again Christians, should not be on the kind of roller-coaster David experienced, as we [u]do[/u] have the power to [u]not[/u] sin, as a present reality.

There is a world of difference between David's voice, by which we hear for the whole of his life he is battling an insurmountable foe, and the voice of Paul who wrote Rom 8:1.

Our encounter with the cross, though daily, also has a once-and-for-all-(our)-time perspective to it. The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, as much as the 'Lamb as it had (just) been slain' in Revelation, is the one of whom John the Baptist said 'Behold the Lamb of God who takes' (present tense) 'away the sin of the world'. (John 1) David may have known of the cross by revelation of the Spirit (Psalm 22 and others) but he himself could not enter into [i]the daily application of it to himeslf[/i] during his lifetime - although he could receive of its benefits, occasionally.


You know, I'm glad you are roughing this out with us, as it is making me even more sure of what Jesus did accomplish. Amen. :-)

 2007/11/9 7:17
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Sis wrote:

Quote:
but the fact is that the psalmist did not have the Holy Spirit in the way that we do, to help us do what is right from the beginning of new birth.



I know from Scripture that this man knew the Holy Spirit...I find no other way declared in Scripture by which man can satisfy the law of God.

Quote:
We, as born again Christians, should not be on the kind of roller-coaster David experienced, as we do have the power to not sin, as a present reality.



I know that the Holy Spirit spoke into David's heart and mind the words of God. I know that the Holy Spirit had a profound inpact in David's life. I know that David knew what was most important to him in this life...

Psalm 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God,
And renew a steadfast spirit within me.
11 Do not cast me away from Your presence,
And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.
12 Restore to me the joy of Your salvation,
And uphold me by Your generous Spirit.

David knew that the Holy Spirit was able to create a clean heart, renew a steadfast spirit within him, and restore the joy of God salvation by upholding David by His generour Spirit...


Your brother In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/11/12 2:50Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Isaiah 13
19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms,
The beauty of the Chaldeans’ pride,
Will be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

5 The LORD has broken the staff of the wicked,
The scepter of the rulers;
6 He who struck the people in wrath with a continual stroke,
He who ruled the nations in anger,
Is persecuted and no one hinders.
7 The whole earth is at rest and quiet;
They break forth into singing.
8 Indeed the cypress trees rejoice over you,
And the cedars of Lebanon,
Saying, “Since you were cut down,
No woodsman has come up against us.’
9 “Hell from beneath is excited about you,
To meet you at your coming;
It stirs up the dead for you,
All the chief ones of the earth;
It has raised up from their thrones
All the kings of the nations.
10 They all shall speak and say to you:
“Have you also become as weak as we?
Have you become like us?
11 Your pomp is brought down to Sheol,
And the sound of your stringed instruments;
The maggot is spread under you,
And worms cover you.’
12 “How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
13 For you have said in your heart:
“I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’
15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
To the lowest depths of the Pit.
16 “Those who see you will gaze at you,
And consider you, saying:
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
Who shook kingdoms,
17 Who made the world as a wilderness
And destroyed its cities,
Who did not open the house of his prisoners?’
18 “All the kings of the nations,
All of them, sleep in glory,
Everyone in his own house;
19 But you are cast out of your grave
Like an abominable branch,
Like the garment of those who are slain,
Thrust through with a sword,
Who go down to the stones of the pit,
Like a corpse trodden underfoot.
20 You will not be joined with them in burial,
Because you have destroyed your land
And slain your people.
The brood of evildoers shall never be named.
21 Prepare slaughter for his children
Because of the iniquity of their fathers,
Lest they rise up and possess the land,
And fill the face of the world with cities.”
22 “For I will rise up against them,” says the LORD of hosts,
“And cut off from Babylon the name and remnant,
And offspring and posterity,” says the LORD.
23 “I will also make it a possession for the porcupine,
And marshes of muddy water;
I will sweep it with the broom of destruction,” says the LORD of hosts.
24 The LORD of hosts has sworn, saying,
“Surely, as I have thought, so it shall come to pass,
And as I have purposed, so it shall stand:
25 That I will break the Assyrian in My land,
And on My mountains tread him underfoot.
Then his yoke shall be removed from them,
And his burden removed from their shoulders.
26 This is the purpose that is purposed against the whole earth,
And this is the hand that is stretched out over all the nations.
27 For the LORD of hosts has purposed,
And who will annul it?
His hand is stretched out,
And who will turn it back?”

Is. 14:28 This is the burden which came in the year that King Ahaz died.
29 “Do not rejoice, all you of Philistia,
Because the rod that struck you is broken;
For out of the serpent’s roots will come forth a viper,
And its offspring will be a fiery flying serpent.
30 The firstborn of the poor will feed,
And the needy will lie down in safety;
I will kill your roots with famine,
And it will slay your remnant.


Above is a judgement spoken against the king of Babylon. We also see that in this section of Scripture we find that the nature of Lucifer has been ascribed to the king of Babylon.

We know that Satan's kingdom began when God said to the serpent...

Genesis 3:15

15 And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”

We know the king of Babylon became the seed of Satan...

When does our Lord's kingdom begin according to this Scripture? We should be able to find the nature of Christ in men whom the love of God was perfected in them....

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/11/12 3:15Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Psalm 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God,
And renew a steadfast spirit within me.
11 Do not cast me away from Your presence,
And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.
12 Restore to me the joy of Your salvation,
And uphold me by Your generous Spirit

David also knew the Holy Spirit could be taken away from him and had to be renewed. We do not have to worry about this for The Holy Spirit is not with us but in us forever.

Our heart is not created clean but given new birth, by the Christ that is Born again in us, He birthed a New Heart in us. No creation here, just a Father birthing son's and daughter's for His Family and put us in His House.

We don't need to be upheld by His Spirit, we are sealed by His Spirit of Promise.

Pentecost.

In Christ and In the Holy Spirit forever: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/11/15 1:00Profile









 Re: Born Again By What Means


Jeff said

Quote:
We know the king of Babylon became the seed of Satan...

By this, you mean that the king of Babylon gave himself over wholly to sin, the seed of which is in us all?

This would be borne out by what Paul said when he separates his love of the law of God by his inward man, from the outworking of the law of sin and death through his actions (flesh: outward man)(Rom 7:22, 23), which through faith in Christ, is overwhelmed by the Holy Spirit as we live in Him, all the power of sin having been ended on the cross when 'our old man' was crucified.

I think it's important to remember the righteousness which is by faith in Christ, is constantly contrasted by Paul, with the righteousness which is by keeping the law (Rom 3:21, 22).

Tyndale addresses this more than once in his marginal notes, and it serves to reinforce all that is said by the other New Testament writers - that Jesus left us with a new commandment 'Love one another', and it is by this (new commandment) that all the previous law is to be interpreted - kept to a higher standard, or discarded completely in favour of mercy and forgiveness. 'And His commandments are not grievous to us' (1 John 5:3) is [u]not[/u] (really) a reference to the Old Covanant laws... especially not, in the light of John 17.

Quote:
I know from Scripture that this man knew the Holy Spirit...I find no other way declared in Scripture by which man can satisfy the law of God.

The law of God in David's day was a lot different from the righteousness of Christ which is [i]imparted[/i] to us (Christ in us) as well as [i]imputed[/i].

The most David could experience was the imputation of righteousness. His sins only could be 'covered' (by blood), but not cleansed from heart and mind, by the blood of Jesus Christ. Whatever the Spirit brought to him by way of prophecy and understanding, was most imperfect compared with the revelation of Jesus Christ, Whom we should be able to admire in each other.

 2007/11/16 19:15
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Jeff said
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He also knows that in himself there is no hope of overcoming these sin issues. He therefore prays to God to deliver him from these issues which come between him and God.


Romans 6:16-23 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Also: Jeff wrote,


""When does our Lord's kingdom begin according to this Scripture? We should be able to find the nature of Christ in men whom the love of God was perfected in them""....

It did not according to the scripture until the enmity came. When did enmity come?

1Cr 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

1Cr 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Gal 5:11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.

Gal 6:12 As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.

Gal 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

enmity slain, Satan out of God's elect and Christ into His Body the Church.

Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Phl 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Phl 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, [that they are] the enemies of the cross of Christ:


You cannot commingle the Old Testament with the New Testament or you destroy them both.

You cannot make this scripture: Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel;

Meaning This is when the ministry of Christ began.

His ministry began before the foundation of the world. Ephesians 1:3-7 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

But began at the Cross by the redemption through His blood.

You cannot make the Old testament to be the New testament In His Blood. Only the precursor to the New Testament that would explain the Old, set aside and embrace the New.

2 Corinthians 5:15-21 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Be ye reconciled to God, by The Cross of Christ is the enmity, being Christ in you the Hope of Glory. Paul preaching nothing but The Cross of Christ and Him crucified.

There is a way of salvation in the old, but it is not the Cross of Christ that we embrace now.

Your Psalm 119 scripture;

Psalm 119

28 My soul melts from heaviness;
Strengthen me according to Your word.
29 Remove from me the way of lying,
And grant me Your law graciously.

35 Make me walk in the path of Your commandments,
For I delight in it.
36 Incline my heart to Your testimonies,
And not to covetousness.
37 Turn away my eyes from looking at worthless things,
And revive me in Your way

This is not, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. John 3:16-18 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The Old Testament saints did not even know His name. But they were God's remnant and elect, being their election finished not in Christ but in the election of God. Now we are the election that believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, us being chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. Colossians 1:26-28 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Even Hidden until the revelation of Paul, by Christ Himself.



In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/11/16 19:20Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Philip wrote:


Quote:
It did not according to the scripture until the enmity came. When did enmity come?



The first example given to us in Scripture is the story of Cain and Abel...

1John 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

1John 3:10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. 11 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, 12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous.

Scripture is very clear on this matter....

Your brother in Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/11/27 2:25Profile





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