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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Born Again By What Means

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rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
In Christ Jesus is a prerequisite to walking after the Spirit. They walk not after the flesh. This is the law of life in Christ Jesus and is a law that makes us free from sin and death.


Quote:
If I am in Christ I am not condemned.
I don't walk in the flesh anymore, because of the Christ Spirit in me. We are either His or we are not.



1 Corinthians 3:
1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; 3 for you are still carnal.


Paul teaches that the Corinthian church for the most part are made up of "babes in Christ." Paul teaches that these "babes in Christ" have not grown to understand spiritual things. Paul teaches that these people who are "in Christ" are still carnal.

How does this precept compare with how you teach that "Christ is birthed in us." What comes first, being born again or Christ birthed in us?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/11/7 2:42Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Hi Sis,

I look at Rom. 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

This condemnation is speaking of judgement deserved by those who do not obey the Spirit. Paul writes many times about the choices people make. He always points to the Spirit as the means by which God enables us to put to death the deeds of the body. For those who do not obey, who do not put to death the deeds of the body, they are those who are in condemnation.

About 5 years ago the Lord gave me this Scripture which continues to work in me...

Isaiah 35:

8 A highway shall be there, and a road,
And it shall be called the Highway of Holiness.
The unclean shall not pass over it,
But it shall be for others.
Whoever walks the road, although a fool,
Shall not go astray.
9 No lion shall be there,
Nor shall any ravenous beast go up on it;
It shall not be found there.
But the redeemed shall walk there,

The unclean shall not travel over this highway, but the redeemed shall walk there....

What esle can I say...the word of God it the only path that matters.

Your brother in Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/11/7 3:36Profile









 Re: Born Again By What Means


Jeff said

Quote:
I look at Rom 8:1

Hi bro,

I agree that there is a process... that daily 'I believe' (I am born again) and walking in the Spirit, whereby we [i]do[/i] the putting to death* of sinful practices, either by simply ceasing, or by actively strangling\neglecting\starving (you get the idea) them of life-support. All of us have to close this gap between what we know Jesus did eternally on the cross (Heb 10:14) and being completed by His life, in our experience, as we come into the good of His death*. We all need to [u]co[/u]-operate with God in this, to really [i]feel[/i] the difference. And I would say sometimes there is a big space of real-time when one could doubt sometimes, but [u]faith[/u] is about [u]standing on the side of eternity[/u] in our hearts (the breastplate of truth) [u]and minds[/u] (the helmet of salvation).


About Rom 8:1, I noticed philologos mention in a thread (no idea which) that perhaps it originally stated: [i]There is[/i] therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus.


That was it. If this is true, then we have to see that Paul was putting the best spin he could on what he was finding, and that he searched for a way to help them keep believing they could [u]stop sinning[/u], despite the temptations to sin for which they were falling. As I read him, he is saying 'if you don't find the way to stop, you will, in the end, have forfeited eternal life'. But, he wasn't prepared to judge them at the time he was writing, as [i]already[/i] being beyond recall.

His attitude should be a huge encouragement to us when we are struggling, as he himself refused to give up hope, even for those who wronged him.


In the light of a shortened Rom 8:1, I think we can see Phillip's thinking, and how if one [i]is[/i] feeling condemned by sin or doubt, this can be remedied by returning to whole-hearted faith in Christ's love and redeeming power.

 2007/11/7 8:13
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

Jeff wrote:

""How does this precept compare with how you teach that "Christ is birthed in us." What comes first, being born again or Christ birthed in us""

Precept, "Babes in Christ"

It is just like myself, I was saved some 35 years ago. When I was, it seemed good to me that I would keep the Law and God would be pleased with me. These are the same people that Paul was speaking to, being pleasing to God by the keeping of the Law.

Like Paul when I received the revelation that Christ was birthed in me and now He was the One that and the Only One that could be pleasing to God, I realized by the revelation that I was no longer a babe but a son. That is what Paul is speaking about in Hebrews 6:1-3 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit.
Speaking to the Hebrew children of Israel, Paul wanted them to go on into perfection. You ask How is that accomplished?

Paul makes it plain in Colossians 1:25-28 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

This is the fulfillment of Ephesians 1:1-12 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

Notice that in the dispensation of the fullness of Time is Used is used twice, and that is for us. That is why Paul 15 years after Pentecost was knocked down, yelled at from Heaven, spoken to personally by Jesus Christ, blinded and told where to go, that God would use Him for His purpose. That is to Present the revelation of Christ in you the Hope of Glory to all that God had given to Jesus Christ His Son and is still speaking to them today.

Babes had to come to the truth of This New Life in Christ Jesus, not just the receiving of the Holy Spirit but the whole life of another Person, that is, again and again "Christ in you the Hope of Glory.

It fits perfect with your question:

""How does this precept compare with how you teach that "Christ is birthed in us." What comes first, being born again or Christ birthed in us?""

They are the same thing. We get the whole bucket of Grace at the same time. Birthed or Born again, Christ in you, the Holy Spirit in you sealing the transaction, The Father coming with the Son to make His abode with us. We just don't get part, we get the whole. That is what babes in Christ must come to know.

Jhn 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare [it]: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

Jhn 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father [is] in me, and I in him.

Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

Col 4:6 Let your speech [be] alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.

1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

This is the knowledge that babes in Christ need to know and finally:

2 Corinthians 6:15-18 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

The Temple of the living God That Christ rebuilt In Three days.

Living in The Temple with God: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/11/7 20:59Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
Babes had to come to the truth of This New Life in Christ Jesus, not just the receiving of the Holy Spirit but the whole life of another Person, that is, again and again "Christ in you the Hope of Glory.



Quote:
They are the same thing. We get the whole bucket of Grace at the same time. Birthed or Born again, Christ in you, the Holy Spirit in you sealing the transaction, The Father coming with the Son to make His abode with us. We just don't get part, we get the whole. That is what babes in Christ must come to know.



Now we know that the Corinthians who were babes in Christ did not understand the spiritual things. We know that Paul had spent a lot of time with the Corinthian church. Why then having been taught dilligently in all things by Paul, the new mystery, why were they not abiding in Christ who was birthed in them?

Your brother in Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/11/8 2:36Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Sis wrote:(sis and bro, we are two peas in a pod)

Quote:
I agree that there is a process... that daily 'I believe' (I am born again) and walking in the Spirit, whereby we do the putting to death* of sinful practices, either by simply ceasing, or by actively strangling\neglecting\starving (you get the idea) them of life-support.



In my own experiences, it is more of a process of events....that tie into Scripture...

I shared before, when I was a new born babe, that I did not want to believe what Scripture taught about the depravity of man. I struggled for probably two years against all the Scripture which teaches this precept. To make a long story short, events fell into place where I repented and affirmed what Scripture was saying to my heart. As I continued to read Scripture now, it opened up to me a whole new level of understanding which had previously been locked up do to my stubborn willful blindness and unbelieving heart.

Well once this precept, had been established, other events came to the forefront in my life. By believing Scripture, it freed me of roots of bitterness which had held me in bondage for years. I had suffered from a romanitic view of how the world should be, yet in real life, it was just the opposite. I looked for virture but always disappointment flooded into my world. By understanding the depravity of man, I now was released by this understanding to know that romantisism for human condition is a futile pursuit. Only a relationship with God, abiding in Christ, could make perfect what was not. The injustices that I experienced made perfect sense now because I understood that I live in a fallen world. Now I see through mercy and grace what is needed, and no longer need to condemn what is already condemned.

This is one process of events which brought the peace that only God can bring to one's heart. And of course, as you have pointed out there is much work that He needs to accomplish in my heart.


Quote:
In the light of a shortened Rom 8:1, I think we can see Phillip's thinking, and how if one is feeling condemned by sin or doubt, this can be remedied by returning to whole-hearted faith in Christ's love and redeeming power.



Yes we are to be still and believe in the promises. But Paul, finishes this thought with these words....

"who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit."

I pursue to cement this in all who read this thread. By allowing all Scripture to speak to one's heart, God has freely given the Holy Spirit to all who have ears to hear....what the written word of God has to say. The Holy Spirit will free us from the bondage of the old man's ways. The Holy Spirit will show us the way to walk in the resurrection life of Christ.

Proverbs 1:
23 Turn at my rebuke;
Surely I will pour out my spirit on you;
I will make my words known to you.

Everytime we come to deny what Scripture is speaking to us, "turn at" His "rebuke"

We all have this hope as a promise, let us turn at His rebuke. He will pour out His Spirit on us and make His words known to us.

Your brother in Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/11/8 3:11Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

It has taken me 7 years to get where I am in Christ. Like Paul I still have much to learn.
The basic foundation has to be worked on every day and know that Christ is doing His part by His Spirit that is in me, which I now want to hear and see, because of the revelation of His Life as my life. The more I learn about Him in me the more I trust Him to bring me to the place Paul travailed over, that is until Christ be formed in me unto the completeness that Christ has given me by grace and faith. I can only receive that amount that He is willing to give. How much is that? Phl 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Col 4:12 Epaphras, who is [one] of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Hbr 13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Christ Liveth in me: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/11/8 4:18Profile









 Re: Born Again By What Means


Jeff said

Quote:
As I continued to read Scripture now, it opened up to me a whole new level of understanding which had previously been locked up ... By believing scripture, it freed me ... Only a relationship with God, abiding in Christ, could make perfect what was not. The injustices that I experienced made perfect sense now because I understood that I live in a fallen world. Now I see through mercy and grace what is needed, and no longer need to condemn what is already condemned.

Thank you for your honest testimony. Amen.

 2007/11/8 8:02









 Re: Born Again By What Means


This that you said just caught my eye, and maybe it's easier to comment upon, now that I've seen your reply to my post, which addressed other aspects of the matter.

Quote:
For those who do not obey, who do not put to death the deeds of the body, they are those who are in condemnation.

Here you've touched on a matter which crops up in posts again and again. Many brethren in Christ [i]seem[/i] to have been taught - or to have got the idea somehow - that the Spirit is going to do the work of mortification for them. They thrash around wildly looking for any other solution to what is wrong with them for being defeated by sin, deprived of the truth that they themselves deliberately, must [u]do[/u] the stopping, [u]do[/u] the strangling, [u]do[/u] the neglecting, or [u]do[/u] the starving of it, (which I mentioned above).

There are precious and empowering verses which distinguish the few things we (must) do for ourselves by the strength of the Spirit, from those which God does for us by His grace and love.

Acts 15:29
that you [u]abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality[/u]. [b]If you keep yourselves from these[/b], you will do well. Farewell.

1 John 5:21
Little children, [b]keep yourselves from idols[/b]. Amen.


Idolatry is the world's worship system, from which we must turn to be born again, and to begin to worship God [Father] in spirit and truth.


The Lord is faithful to deliver us from the trappings of our pasts.

 2007/11/8 9:17
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

You are so right Linn.

How can man be still so deceived and still listen to the Lie. Genesis 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Adam and Eve did believe the lie, they turned away from the God of Love and creation and turned to their own do-er religion, and from then on man has been saying I can do it myself and be like God and make Him happy with me.

Well it took God in a human being incarnate Himself being the Son of God to change the man from Law to Grace. It took the all God all man Jesus Christ, being ripped apart physically and mentally as the Man God to take away the Satan centered life of each of God's creations and exchange the life of death to life in Jesus Christ Himself. This is the only way God could provide redemption for a fallen and Lost race of people God had created. He knew it all along and was ready from the foundation of the world to make it so. Even before: Ephesians 1:3-5 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.

Man wants to go into the old ways because it feels so comfortable to the flesh that he in himself can do the works of do-er religion and make himself pleasing to God.

God wants man only to believe that He changed the do-er religion to Grace by Faith in Love and truth. Then believe what God has said through Jesus Christ and Paul that man is: Ephesians 2:7-10 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

These are our works of faith: Romans 12:1-5 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

It is so refreshing to read what you write on the forum, because it is the Christ in you that is doing the writing and I am refreshed and confirmed in my walk in Christ.

Thank you Linn

Christ liveth in me: Phillip


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Phillip

 2007/11/8 13:25Profile





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