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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Born Again By What Means

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Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Matthew 13:18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower .

If you see the two different seeds and know that Christ is the Logos Seed and that He is the Root, this parable becomes clear. Then you see it is up to the Sower to put His Seed where He wants and knows that He being the Root gives life and the Logos Seed, these are the born again and the ones with Christ and The Root in them.

Seed with no root:

Strong's Greek Dictionary
4687. speiro
Search for G4687 in KJVSL
speirw speiro spi'-ro
probably strengthened from 4685 (through the idea of extending); to scatter, i.e. sow (literally or figuratively):--sow(- er), receive seed.

See Greek 4685

Good Seed with Christ the Root:

Strong's Greek Dictionary
4690. sperma
Search for G4690 in KJVSL
sperma sperma sper'-mah
from 4687; something sown, i.e. seed (including the male "sperm"); by implication, offspring; specially, a remnant (figuratively, as if kept over for planting):--issue, seed.

See Greek 4687

Unto son's of God. Jhn 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit [be] holy, the lump [is] also [holy]: and if the root [be] holy, so [are] the branches.

Seed of Christ, in Good Ground prepared by the Father, with the Root of Christ, the born again being the branches. Son's of God.

In Christ, the Root of salvation and the Seed of God the Father: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/11/5 14:39Profile









 Re: Born Again By What Means


Hello Jeff,

Thank you for your exposition on the heart and the word. I do not disagree.

It is how to define the outworking of this new heart, which has the incorruptible Seed planted in it, which seems to need further exploration.

I understand that the human body ages and dies. This is not something God intended to change by salvation. The body we receive at our first birth will decay.

However, once a person is born again, that flesh comes under the influence of the new spirit and the Holy Spirit. (Perhaps it is just the Holy Spirit's presence, which makes the human spirit feel so differently.) And the effect of the Holy Spirit's presence, is to harness that old body, to serve the Lord. Instead of that old body being bound to sin, it is released from the nature of sin, and is freed to walk, in the Spirit, in [u]new[/u]ness of [u]life[/u].

This is consistent with scripture.


I respect that there is a following for Watchman Nee here, (not necessarily you), who may subscribe to the system of our body serving our soul with the spirit (dead, or, alive) being the driving force of the soul. But because the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, and Rom 8:11 says our mortal bodies are quickened by it as we, with the Spirit's help, stop practising sin anymore, I believe his template falls short.

Yet I do believe the soul is the invisible repository of all that is done in the mind and the body, and this also (when you have time to study it), is consistent with scripture. Jesus came to save our souls.

The miracle of being severed from Sin, washed in His blood and filled with the Holy Spirit, is that during the processes and crises which we go through, to arrive at peace with God, He purges and heals that old body of the effect of sins as well as releasing it from the power of Sin, He writes His laws in our hearts and minds, sprinkling our conscience from our past, and He washes our bodies with the pure water of His word. Don't ask me how it works, but I know I've experienced measures of it at times. I also realise not everyone experiences these benefits in the same ways; each would describe the effect of his salvation paying attention to different details.

Romans 7
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but to perform that which is good I find not.

20 - 25, 8:1 - 5
Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. [i]There is[/i] therefore [color=000099]now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus[/color], who walk [u]not[/u] [given to] the flesh, but [walk, given to] the Spirit for [b][u]the law[/u] of the Spirit[/b] of [b]life[/b]-in-Christ-Jesus [u]hath [b]made me free from[/b] the law of sin-and-death[/u].

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not [given to] the flesh, but [given to] the Spirit. For they that are [given to] the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are [given to] the Spirit [[b]do mind[/b]] the things of the Spirit.



In other words, the body becomes a slave to the will of God, by obedience to the renewing of the mind, and the mortification of practising sins.

 2007/11/5 15:19
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

] the Spirit for the law of the Spirit of life-in-Christ-Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin-and-death.

Amen and the life we now live in the flesh, we live by the Faith of the Son of God.

In the flesh we live by His Faith in the Spirit we live by His Life.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

The New Law: "The law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus, from where all new commandments come from.

Jhn 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare [it]: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

Jhn 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

We cannot love one another unless He and His Love are in us, that the new creature we have become. Jhn 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Moreover, Christ and the Father in you the Hope of Glory.

Worship man and what man can do and the creature serves himself, for his own pleasures, not God.

Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

The New creature in Christ Jesus:
Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected [the same] in hope,

Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

A New creature In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2007/11/5 20:24Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Sis quoted this Scripture...

Quote:
Rom. 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.



If I may change this...There is condemnation to those who walk according to the flesh, and there is no condemnation for those who walk according to the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 2:
10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

In this section of Scripture Paul identifies that the Spirit of God communicates with the spirit of man so "that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God."

It is our choice to walk according to the flesh or according to the Spirit. The Spirit communicates His words to us. This is the only way that we can know how to walk.


I found this sermon which speaks to how man walks according to the flesh or according to the Spirit...

http://www.charityministries.org/audio/3742.mp3

Your brother in Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/11/6 1:16Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

If I may change this...There is condemnation to those who walk according to the flesh, and there is no condemnation for those who walk according to the Spirit.

That is not what this scripture says. It says, "there is no condemnation for those that are in Christ Jesus"

Romans 8:1-2 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

In Christ Jesus is a prerequisite to walking after the Spirit. They walk not after the flesh. This is the law of life in Christ Jesus and is a law that makes us free from sin and death.

We can still walk in the flesh, but we have and advocate with the Father and if we do walk in the flesh and sin we need to confess our sin and God is faithful to forgive us our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 1:7-9 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

This is the sin of commission on our part.

This is the omission of Sin which became our nature in our old father Satan. This is us in Christ Jesus: 1 John 3:8-10 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

John is not double minded, but speaks to the truth of what Christ did at the Cross. He changed the nature of the believer to be no more ruled by Satan our old father to the Nature of God our Father by the Christ that is birthed in us.

Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

2Cr 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Philippians 2:5-15 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings: That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

Not in condemnation by the Christ that is in me: Phillip


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Phillip

 2007/11/6 2:20Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Phillip,

1 Corinthians 3

1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able;

Also...

Romans 8:

Rom. 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

We know that Paul is speaking to men and women who are "in Christ" why would he warn them of these circumstances?

Why in every letter does Paul have to warn people who are "in Christ" about the sin that they continue to commit?

What does it mean when Paul calls a person a "babe in Christ."

In Christ
jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/11/6 4:36Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Philippians 3:1-15 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe. Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Babes are in Christ and are learning this principle, and in learning that they are perfect can press on for the prize of the High calling of God in Christ Jesus.

What is a babe in the cradle or in his mothers arms?

Learning that Christ is all and that revelation must come from the revelation of the Holy Spirit and the Christ that is birthed in us.

Having this mind that is in Christ Jesus.

1 Corinthians 1:1-9 Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother, Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ; That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge; Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you: So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

Going on into perfection by the mind of Christ and His fellowship that is in me, growing up from a babe into a man of Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2007/11/6 13:23Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Rom 8:1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Should this read: The is therefore condemnation to them which are in Christ, who walk not after the spirit but after the flesh?

There are two ways of presenting the Gospel of Paul, one to the building up of the body of Christ, the other to the tearing down of the Body of Christ.

Walk in Grace and love in Christ Jesus or walk in law to the sentence of death. Jhn 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? Christ built up the body of Christ in three days.

No man can tear it down, even though they try.

Jude 1:16-25 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage. But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. And of some have compassion, making a difference: And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/11/6 13:55Profile









 Re: Born Again By What Means


Hi Jeff,

Perhaps you could make a contribution to Diane's thread called Conviction or Condemnation, as you raise an interesting point.

I have come to regard 'condemnation' such as the accuser of the brethren brings to God day and night, as an occupational hazzard as a Christian, and was mightily encouraged when I realised this is what Jesus had to put up with also (Zech 3), the wilderness being a more focused attempt to destroy His mission somehow.

Therefore, I don't regard 'condemnation' as something to fear, while I am continually coming to the light. The condemnation I fear is that which would befall if I was unwilling to face God over my sins.

It is a discipline to learn to walk in the Spirit. I think also, that to 'live' in the Spirit is describing the basis from which we ever try to walk - although our experience often makes us [i]feel[/i] as if we are walking in the Spirit some of the time and living in it even less of the time. This (I believe) is a kind of perceptual disorientation from spiritual truth, which as we press on to [i]walk in the Spirit more and more[/i], begins to emerge in our understanding.

I agree with your point about the lists of sins Paul includes in His epistles, and we all have to trust that God sees all hearts which thirst for righteousness, who turn away from making any of those sins a lifestyle. I think we have to leave God to do the judging of those who stumble regularly with sin, rather than throwing it off to race to the end of their course. Probably most of us have had at least one 'you did run well; what did hinder you?' moment in our Christian lives, which helps to keep us from getting too high-minded with each other ;-) .

 2007/11/6 16:12
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

This condemnation is, if I am not in Christ I am condemned. If I am in Christ I am not condemned.
I don't walk in the flesh anymore, because of the Christ Spirit in me. We are either His or we are not.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His. And Condemned. My words added.

Romans 8:1-9 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

As you say Dorcas we have no fear of condemnation.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2007/11/6 19:41Profile





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