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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Born Again By What Means

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Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
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 Re:

When I was saved by believing that Jesus Christ was the Son of God, I didn't have a clue what had happened. I knew that God was real and that Jesus Christ was His Son. It has taken 30 years for the Holy Spirit to reveal this Christ in me, to the point that He has become my life and my all. When I was saved nothing seemed to change, I still had all the flesh pulls that I had before I believed. I could not keep what I knew God would have me do. I kept sinning and feeling guilty and condemning myself and was always defeated in my Christian walk. Then I read that there was not supposed to be any condemnation for those that are in Christ. I started to understand that the organized church was not teaching this, they were always putting me under condemnation, you must be baptized, you must attend church every time the doors are open and you must become involved in the ministry of the Church, this just did not compute with what I was reading in scripture. So I fought with the Church to try and find this freedom that I was supposed to have. I could not put scripture together, Law and Grace that is. I knew God's Law was perfect and I knew I could not keep it. Then one day I picked up a magazine about Life in the Son. That began a new journey in my Christian Walk. The magazine is produced by a X Pentecostal Minister, who came to know these words, Life in the Son. The greatest problem I had to overcome was the word that the author, Warren Litzman, was using a lot in his writings. The word was birthing, I hated it and made myself change it to born again every time I read it or heard it. Well I finally came to grips with the word birthing and it now to me is the single most precious word I know of.

I came to the realization of a period of 5 or 6 years that this Christ the Son of God was truly birthed in me. Gal 2:20 and Col 1:27 became real and alive in me. The Holy Spirit, My own precious Teacher of this Christ, which came from John 14,15,16,17 revealed this Person Jesus Christ to me in a new and living way that I had been seeking all my life and was not able to obtain the oneness I craved of knowing this God who was supposed to be my Father. This past six years has been supper walk with Jesus Christ who is now my Spirit and the teaching of the Holy Spirit Who is now my Teacher and keeper of my Soul and Mind and He will be with me forever as Jesus Christ promised He would send Him from the Father. That is how I can now truly say, It is Christ and Him crucified, and this is all that I want to know, and all else will be directed in my life and that life in the Son will be the very Air I Breath, My All in All, He is the one in whom I live a move and have my being. All my life I believed there was a God but I had no idea How Much He wanted to know me and have this Personal oneness with me, can you believe that The God of this Universe wanting to have me as His son, just so He could show how much He loves me and is teaching me how I can love Him, and this makes Him happy. Wow, it beyond all comprehension, but I can testify to Its truth. My Father loves me and I am just beginning to know the true desire of my own heart and that is to Love Him, which He teaches me every day by the Life I now have in His Son, His only Begotten Birthed Son now birthed in me. I am a son of God, can you believe that? The tears flow every time I think of this miracle of miracles, my own Brother Jesus Christ leading me into His and My Fathers Love. I am incapable of making this Oneness with them understandable in mans words, but the Holy Spirit will make a way for every son and daughter to have this oneness with Them. Amen.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2005/11/14 15:03Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
When I was saved nothing seemed to change, I still had all the flesh pulls that I had before I believed. I could not keep what I knew God would have me do. I kept sinning and feeling guilty and condemning myself and was always defeated in my Christian walk.



Could this be Gal 3:

22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.



Quote:
Then I read that there was not supposed to be any condemnation for those that are in Christ. I started to understand that the organized church was not teaching this, they were always putting me under condemnation, you must be baptized, you must attend church every time the doors are open and you must become involved in the ministry of the Church, this just did not compute with what I was reading in scripture.



Gal 3:

2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?


Quote:
The word was birthing, I hated it and made myself change it to born again every time I read it or heard it. Well I finally came to grips with the word birthing and it now to me is the single most precious word I know of.




Galatians 5:

17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.


Quote:
I came to the realization of a period of 5 or 6 years that this Christ the Son of God was truly birthed in me.




John 14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

Gal. 1:11 But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. 12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Gal. 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace, 16 to reveal His Son in me,

Quote:
The Holy Spirit, My own precious Teacher of this Christ, which came from John 14,15,16,17 revealed this Person Jesus Christ to me in a new and living way that I had been seeking all my life and was not able to obtain the oneness I craved of knowing this God who was supposed to be my Father.



Psalm 119

99 I have more understanding than all my teachers,
For Your testimonies are my meditation.
100 I understand more than the ancients,
Because I keep Your precepts.
101 I have restrained my feet from every evil way,
That I may keep Your word.
102 I have not departed from Your judgments,
For You Yourself have taught me.
103 How sweet are Your words to my taste,
Sweeter than honey to my mouth!
104 Through Your precepts I get understanding;
Therefore I hate every false way.
105 Your word is a lamp to my feet
And a light to my path.
106 I have sworn and confirmed
That I will keep Your righteous judgments.

Quote:
All my life I believed there was a God but I had no idea How Much He wanted to know me and have this Personal oneness with me, can you believe that The God of this Universe wanting to have me as His son, just so He could show how much He loves me and is teaching me how I can love Him, and this makes Him happy.



1John 4:19 We love Him because He first loved us.

Quote:
The tears flow every time I think of this miracle of miracles, my own Brother Jesus Christ leading me into His and My Fathers Love. I am incapable of making this Oneness with them understandable in mans words, but the Holy Spirit will make a way for every son and daughter to have this oneness with Them. Amen.




Neither could Paul make other men understand. That is why he always prayed for the believers.

Amen Brother Phillip

Everything you have experienced is in Scripture. I may have not framed every thought as clearly but your thoughts will always reflect Scripture.


John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2005/11/14 16:44Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

My very brother Jeff, by the Christ that is in us both. Brothers in Christ doing His work, may we yield even more and become less as He becomes more. Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2005/11/14 22:46Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Hi Linn,

Who is the Holy Spirit? What did Jesus say He would do? Where does the Holy Spirit do what He was sent to do. The Holy spirit is the Comforter and Teacher as per John 14,15,16,17 where Jesus promised He would not leave us without comfort. The Holy Spirit will teach us all things. John 14:16-21 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. By the Holy Spirit we at that day will know that Jesus is manifest Himself in us. Is He come? Yes He has come, He is in us and now is the Spirit that gives me the life of the Father. Is the Holy Spirit come. Yes He is come and is no longer with us, but is in us forever. If the Word Himself is with and in us and the teacher Himself is in us and with us forever, then why do we need the Word of God written in our hearts when our hearts already are Christ in spirit and and the Holy Spirit is our knowledge for He is in our mind and soul as teacher all we do is listen to Him and Christ is manifest to in truth and life in Christ in whom we live and move and have our being.

The word needs to be written in someone's heart that does not have the Holy Spirit already their, and that would be Israel that has not been born again by believing in the Christ of God the Father. Hbr 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: He is not a God to us but we are to pray this way, Our Father who art in Heaven. He is our Father and we are not His people Israel we are son's of God and Joint heirs with Christ to the Father's house with Christ the first Fruits. All that the Father has is The Son's and all that the Son has He has given to us.

Do you see the difference and why I said we don't need the word of God to be written in our hearts, because our Spirit is Christ in us the Hope of Glory and the Holy Spirit is in our soul mind teaching us this Christ by direct revelation knowledge. Revealed in our Hearts not written in our Hearts. For the Letter kills but the Spirit of the Law is Life, which is the Word of God Himself, the complete fulfillment of the Law, Christ Himself birthed in us and is the Living Word, life in us. No need to be written on or in our hearts, He is our all in all, which includes our Hearts, that is the Heart of Christ in us the Hope of Glory.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2005/11/15 3:29Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

"Do you see the difference and why I said we don't need the word of God to be written in our hearts, because our Spirit is Christ in us the Hope of Glory and the Holy Spirit is in our soul mind teaching us this Christ by direct revelation knowledge..."


God works in many ways to make Himself known to all, so that all are without excuse. I hear what you are saying. Yet I wonder about the clarity of your message to those who are babes in Christ. These children can be swayed by every wind of doctrine.

I have read about the Chinese home church. God has revealed Himself to His people, many times in demostrations of His power. They come to Him, they seek Him, they know that He is. Yet testimony after testimony speaks of what comes next in their life. They pray for Bibles to be sent to them. They hunger for the word of God that is written in their own language. They memorize whole books so that in the event that they are imprisioned they have the word without the need for paper and ink. I hear testimonies of how families tear out pages of Scripture and make copies and then exchange for other pages of Scripture. I hear of the hunger that God has placed in them for His word.

This I have experienced in my own life. God teaches me line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little there a little. His worderful mysteries are revealed in a way that I always marvel at how His truth once hidden is slowly being unraveled in my mind and heart.

I guess as we thirst and strive for greater understanding, God will in His wisdom work out His salvation in us. It is we who endeavor to explain where He has brought us; we strive to let His light shine in the darkness of this world; this we too are just learning to frame or comprehend what He has revealed to us in a way that others might follow.


Forgeting the things of the past, let us look onward to the call of Christ in our lives.

God Bless
In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2005/11/15 11:55Profile
Graftedbranc
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Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re: The Law

Quote:
The purpose of the law never changes. The law was and is still today given to condemn all according to the flesh.



Romans 7:1-6 Or are you ingorant, brothers, (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law lords it over the man as long as he lives? For the married woman is bound by the law to her husband while he is living but if the husband dies, she is discharged from the law regarding the husband. So then if, while the husband is living, she is joined to another man, she will be called an adultress; but if the husband dies, she is free from the law. so that she is not an adultress, though she is joined to another man. So then, my brothers, you also have been made dead to the law through the body of Christ so that you might be joined to Another, to Him who has been raised from the dead, that we might bear fruit to God...
But now we have been discharged from the law, having died to that in which we were held, so that we serve in newness of spirit and not in oldness of letter...

_________________________________________________________________________________________

The Law never changes and it's purpose never changes. But our relationship to it changes. In the flesh and in our natural state, It condemns us. But in Christ we died to it and in Christ we are free from its condemnation and its juristiction (Romans 7-8:1, Gal:2:19,20)

For the Christian as one who is "dead to the law through the body of Christ", the law serves another function. That is it reveals to us the nature and charecter of this One who is within us, who desires to live His life through us.

The Law's realm is the Old creation. The realm of Christ is the New Creation which is not in Law but in the Spirit.

On the Cross the Lord Jesus terminated in HImself the Old Creation. And with it all the Laws and ordinances. And In resurrection brought into being the New Creation which is in Life. That is God is in the New Creation as its base, Its element, and its expression.

Galatians ties the Law with the flesh and condemnation. And Galatians ties the Spirit with Faith and Eternal Life. And according to Paul in Galatians, "nothing avails but a New Creation."

THe Spirit within us testifies to the work of Christ on the Cross. The Spirit does not direct us to the Law but to Christ. The Spirit reveals Christ to us and manifest Christ in us, the hope of Glory. And as we behold the Lord, we are transformed into the same image from Glory to Glory, even as through the Lord Spirit.

Romans 7 shows us a man who is trying to live according to the law in the energy of his flesh. Romans 8 shows us a man living by the "Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus".

Graftedbranch

 2005/11/15 13:29Profile
Graftedbranc
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Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re: The Word of the Bible

Quote:
Is He come? Yes He has come, He is in us and now is the Spirit that gives me the life of the Father. Is the Holy Spirit come. Yes He is come and is no longer with us, but is in us forever. If the Word Himself is with and in us and the teacher Himself is in us and with us forever, then why do we need the Word of God written in our hearts when our hearts already are Christ in spirit



"When we come to the divine Word, nearly our whole being is involved. We must come with a heart which seeks after God, with a clear, sober mind, and with an open spirit. If we open our spirit to God and to His Word, we can touch God Himself behind the printed page. It is not just a matter of reading with our eyes, understanding with our mind, or seeking with our heart; it is also a matter of touching God in our spirit. If we exercise our whole being in this way, we not only receive a revelation, but some divine element revealed and conveyed by His Word will be transmitted into our spirit. So, Ephesians 6:17-18 says that we have to "receive...the word of God, by means of all prayer and petition..." We should take the word of the Bible not only by reading and studying, but also "by means of all prayer." We should read and study the Bible prayerfully; that is, we must exercise our spirit to contact the Lord by prayer with the reading of the divine Word."- Spirit and Life by W. Lee


First, in 2 cor the "words (or laws) written in our hearts by the Holy Spirit" is the New Covenant as opposed to the Old Covenant where the law is outward and written in stone.

We need the word of God because in the written Word is the revelation of Christ and the Spirit uses the written Word to convey the Lviing Word.

As we feed on the written Word while exercising our spirit to pray and contact the Living Lord Jesus, the Spirit opens up the writtne word and conveys the Reality behind the Word into our spirit and through it enlightens our minds, renews our hearts and sanctifies us. The Lord Jesus prayed to the Father, "sanctify them in Truth, thy Word is Truth?.

Sanctification is by the Spirit through the word, Apart from the word the Spirit has no means in which to impart the Truth to us. The Spirit uses the Word and as One Saint said, "The Spirit rides best in His own Chariot.

Grafted Branch

 2005/11/15 13:57Profile









 Re: Born Again By What Means

Quote:
The word needs to be written in someone's heart that does not have the Holy Spirit already their, and that would be Israel that has not been born again by believing in the Christ of God the Father. Hbr 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: He is not a God to us but we are to pray this way, Our Father who art in Heaven. He is our Father and we are not His people Israel we are son's of God and Joint heirs with Christ to the Father's house with Christ the first Fruits. All that the Father has is The Son's and all that the Son has He has given to us.

I don't see how anyone can be born again without the word being written in their heart. You can't hold a person's ethnic origin up as a reason for them to undergo new birth by a different means than Christ instituted.

Hebrews 10
19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 [b]by a new and living way[/b], which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 21 and [having] an high priest over the house of God; 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)


1 Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, [b]by the word of God, which liveth[/b] and abideth for ever.

Phillip, Hi, :-) Good to meet up here...

You know, the first Christians were Jews by birth, and they had to ditch their first birth to become children of God, just as non-Jews have to ditch their first birth to become children of God. I don't see any reason to excuse Gentiles from the rigors of the faith into which Jews (by birth) are expected to enter. Maybe I'm missing a whole lot which is obvious to everyone else... so, I've started a new thread about this specifically.

But, the other point is, I don't see how any Christian can think they are exempt from the effect of scripture. While I realise that some of it appears to be solely historical account, being the word of God, it has amazing power to speak through the Spirit, of eternal truth. I want every drop of that truth to penetrate my understanding, if at all possible. I don't want to come to verses and think they don't apply to me somehow. That's just my personal view of the necessity of eating the whole book - the whole word.

 2005/11/15 14:24
Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Quote:
I don't see how anyone can be born again without the word being written in their heart.



Amen. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of chirst.

And in 1 Thess. Paul says, 'Knowing, brothers, beloved of God, your selection; because our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and in much assurance, even as you know what kind of men we were among you for your sake...

It is the Word spoken and recieved in the power of the Spirit that begets us. Not the Word only, nor the Spirit only. It is the Word by and in the Spirit that comes to us in power and regenerates us and conveys the living Christ to us.

And the power of the Word spoken is determined by, "What kind of men we were among you for your sake.."

That is, Only when we ourselves are in contact with and constituted with the Living Christ and living Christ as our Life and our pattern is the Spirit able through us to impart the Living Christ into others through our words.

IN other words, we cannot lead another somewhere we are not and only if we are living Christ and abiding in Him and One with Him are our words effective and our words conveying the power of the Spirit.


Grafted Branch

 2005/11/15 14:32Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

I am sorry I don't have the intellect or ability to get the understanding of what I am saying across. It is simply that I am trying to say the the Word Himself in in our Heart and we don't need it to be written if Jesus Himself is our truth, given by the Holy Spirit Power that is in us. Anyone can read the written word, but the power of it is in the Giver, a Person, Jesus Christ. Please don't misquote what I am saying, I am not saying that the Word of God is not important because it is the only way to salvation by Jesus Christ Himself who Is the Word, directed and revealed by the Holy Spirit in our Minds. Maybe I am getting Heart and Soul Mind mixed up in what I am writing. To me the Heart of a man is where the two edged sword divides the soul and spirit. The heart is where the Spirit of Christ dwells and the soul of a man is where the Holy Spirit teaches us to know and where He will be forever revealing this Christ that is in us. This is where I see that if Christ is in us then we don't need the Word written in our Hearts. I see The Holy Spirit using the Word that is in us to bring forth this Christ as us. This is a knowing not a writing, with the speaking of this knowing we are led to salvation. Christ is the Word, He is my Heart and if that is what God meant when He said "He would write His Law in their hearts, OK, but I don't think that is what He meant, for it was not written to the Christian, but to Israel.

Keep going and maybe I can get this straight in my own mind and then Know what the Spirit is saying for the ears I have to Hear, and the sight I have to see.

2 Corinthians 3:14-17 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; (which vail is done away in Christ.) But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. Then The Word of the Law will be written in their hearts.

Where is the Spirit of the Lord? The Spirit of the Lord is my Spirit by being born again of Spirit and water. The washing of water by the Word, and Who is the Word? John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2005/11/15 21:07Profile





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