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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Born Again By What Means

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lovegrace
Member



Joined: 2006/8/12
Posts: 313


 Re:

**Side note**

This is an extremely long thread. Can anyone sum up what you've discovered and went through? 48 pages is ALOT of reading that I don't have time for...haha, I'd just like to read it, not really get in the discussion.

Thanks to any saint that would like to help out with this request. :-D

 2006/9/22 10:31Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Lovegrace asked for a summary of this thread.

.................................................

1 Peter 1

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

John 3:

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Peter states that it is the word of God that causes one to be born again.

This has been my experience how about you?

...............................................

I have attempted to work through how the Scriptures have saved me from the old man. And how they become the treasure for which God has removed the hope I once had for the things of this world and replaced them with a new and living hope that is found in Christ.

Up to this point, it has all been about establishing the need to first hear the word of God, and then to accept what it says.

The "need" thus far has been the focal point. What happens to those who have not found the need to have Scripture be the saving force in their life. I have used the parable of the sower as a means to work through all the ways that men and women stumble. I have attempted to highlight the facts that Jesus teaches us in the parable of the sower with the writings of Paul to the churches.

Finally, it is a work to show where I have found Christ.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/9/23 4:37Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
Good ground will bring forth fruit unto Good Seed. No man can till his own ground or plant any seed that will bring forth fruit unto salvation or fruit.



What makes the ground good then? Or by what means does the ground change from being dead to being alive?


Quote:
God prepares the vine just like He prepares the ground for the Seed. He knows exactly where to plant the Vine and exactly what branches to prune and exactly which branches to throw away. He knows exactly how to jib and girdle the grape vine bearing branches to bring for the biggest Grapes and the exact time when the sugar is at its peak for the biggest and sweetest fruit.




But how are the branches nourished? What happens to the branches that stop being nourished? Is this the same as the seeds that sprouted for a time and then dried up or were choked out?


In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/9/23 4:42Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Sister Dorcas...

The first part of your reply reminds me of this Scripture...

2 Timothy 2:21

"Therefore if anyone cleanse himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work."

Amen Sis...

Next you speak of predestination...and the grace spoken of in Elijah's time.

It is Christ's work that was predestined. All who are born from above, are predestined to grow into His likeness because they become His bride.

Genesis 2:24

"Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh."

The old man and the new man...

Oh how the revelation of God through Scriptures makes our hearts sing. Grace is a "heat seeking missle."

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/9/23 4:58Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

The branches of a grape vine are from the root and the vine. If the are left alone they grow and grow and get longer and longer and the farther away from the vine the branches grow the smaller the fruit and finally if left alone the end of the branch will die and no fruit is give.

The husbandman of the vineyard is the one that knows exactly how to prune the vine so the branches are new each season in producing the best fruit.

The Ground is also kept full of the right chemicals that give the ground the power to produce the Vine. Who's blood cries to the Father from the Ground? (Christ) is the Chemical, (Blood) we are the ground. So no need for chemicals each year, (sacrifice of animals). The single Chemical, (Christ's Sacrifice) is acceptable to the Husbandman and Christ brings forth the perfect fruit. No replenishment of chemicals (blood) is needed again, because the Blood of Christ changes the good ground (Seed planted) permanently and is never needed again.

We are the branch and the Husbandman knows exactly how to prune those branches to produce the best fruit and the branches never get to the point where they are cut off and thrown away, only the branch that is pruned are the cuttings thrown away. The Ground is the Lords, the Preparation of the Ground is the Lords, The planting of the Seed is the Lords, The Seed is Christ. The Vine is the Lords, The branches are in Christ the Vine, The pruning is the Lords, The fruit is the Lords, and we are the Lords, both the ground in which the Seed is planted and the branches of the New plant created in Christ Jesus because we believe the Husbandman and the Sower. The earthy branches trying to make its own fruit. These are the bad ground the bad vine and bad branches that are burned up. The Heavenly branches having a Heavenly Husbandman and Seed that produces Heavenly Fruit. The Husbandman can even take the pruned branches of the Heavenly Vine which is Christ and make new plants of the Good Vine pruneings and evangelized new branches from the original Vine and Seed. The Body of Christ the Church, all from the original Vine.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2006/9/23 17:19Profile









 Re: Born Again By What Means


Jeff quoted 2 Timothy 2:21

Quote:
Therefore if anyone cleanse [b]himself[/b]...

There are a number of scriptures which throw the onus back on the man or woman who would be believe or would be found believing.

With regard to the preparation I spoke of, this is as much to do with us. It is not just us hearing the Lord calling us. It is us leaving what we are doing (leaving our nets), and following - by dispensing with hindrances - getting rid of the stony stones in the ground of our hearts. This is how the heart is prepared to receive the seed - the word which WILL bring forth fruit.

It is at this stage, that the individual lays aside the riches and the cares of this world in principle, so that when they [i][b]try[/i][/b] to choke the word, the choices have been made, and the believe has already refused to be waylaid by such things.

Quote:
It is Christ's work that was predestined.

I like this. But surely HE was predestined, and us in Him, [i]also[/i]?

Earlier you said
Quote:
Why do we wrestle with this parable?

Bro, I wasn't aware we are [i]wrestling[/i] with it. Are you?

 2006/9/24 14:12
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Every branch in me. Every one that is a true follower of me, that is united to me by faith, and that truly derives grace and strength from me, as the branch does from the vine. The word branch includes all the boughs, and the smallest tendrils that shoot out from the parent stalk.

2 Timothy 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

What is a man purged from? "but also of wood and of earth"; and some to honour, and some to dishonour." How is a man purged?

The word "these" refers, here, to the persons represented by the vessels of wood and of earth" --the vessels made to dishonour, as mentioned in the previous verse. The idea is, that if one would preserve himself from the corrupting influence of such men, he would be fitted to be a vessel of honor, or to be employed in the most useful and honourable service in the cause of his Master.

Purging is not something a man does on his own, it is honor to the vessels that are purged by the Spirit of Christ in them. Let each man know that it is Christ in him that gives him, to be fitted to a vessel of honor, useful to be employed in service of the Master's cause. "And this will we do, if God permit."

"Some to honor and some to dishonor", this is regulated by God not by man.

With the new birthed Seed in us comes the purging, This is our responsibility, to know and honour That Seed and stay away for dishonorable things.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2006/9/24 23:07Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
The branches of a grape vine are from the root and the vine. If the are left alone they grow and grow and get longer and longer and the farther away from the vine the branches grow the smaller the fruit and finally if left alone the end of the branch will die and no fruit is give.



John 15:1 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

John 15:5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.


I do not see the parallel of what you said with the Scripture you cite. I believe this parable is another that backs up what the sower of the seed parable seeks to teach.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/9/25 0:17Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Sister Dorcas wrote;

Quote:
Bro, I wasn't aware we are wrestling with it. Are you?



When I wrote that, I was speaking to the idea that the church in general wrestles with this parable. Likewise, the parable of the vine in John 15.

In my life, I have wrestled continually with Scripture. Sometimes agonizing over what I hear, not understanding how it "fits' into the truth that is pure. When the light of truth does come, there are moment of pure joy. Peace comes to settle the struggle for understanding. The peace is found when one understands what God is working in them for the moment ahead or the year to come that is found in Scripture.

The parables teach about the kingdom of God. When you recognize how these parables become real in your life. When you understand because of what God is doing in and around your life, you yourself see the kingdom at work before you, framed by the word of God. You are able to discern what is true. You are able to recognize where people are at in their own walk with God. You are able to recognize the lies that come from Satan.


This is why Paul always prays and exhorts that those who believe go onto maturity. If we choose to remain simple, we also choose not to abide in the vine.

I have struggled and will continue to wrestle for the truth because it has become a treasure the exceeds what the world has to offer. Freedom is experienced when God chooses one to see a little more of the truth that is in Him.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/9/25 0:35Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Jeff wrote:

"I do not see the parallel of what you said with the Scripture you cite. I believe this parable is another that backs up what the sower of the seed parable seeks to teach."


This is what I wrote: "The branches of a grape vine are from the root and the vine. If the branches are left alone they grow and grow and get longer and longer and the farther away from the vine the branches grow the smaller the fruit and finally if left alone the end of the branch will die and no fruit is give.

This is what happens to branches that are not of the true vine, that is Christ. We can see after 1700 years of Law and tradition Israel became these dead branches, because they were not one with the true vine. If Christ is the Vine and the born again are in Vine, then the branches cannot grow to produce bad fruit because the Husbandman which is The Father and owner of the vineyard will make sure it is tended and purged and produces good fruit in Christ.

This is the whole of all that the Body of Christ is, that is the Church that is Christ. We either do all we do in Christ or nothing will come forth. Christ in you is truly the Hope of All Glory, on earth and in Heaven. We try to See man's responsibility in all that we do, but it is plain we have nothing to do with it. This is the last thing that man wants to turn loose of that is his pride that he has something to do with his salvation and his birthing. A babe in the womb has no choice or no ability to say, it is all up to me in my birth. !!!WRONG!!!

It is God in Christ by the Holy Spirit does the birthing. Christ and His Bride, God the Father choosing each member of the Bride by the Seed of Christ. If we look at both parables in this way, they make perfect sense. Without Christ and the Seed planted by the Father we are nothing.

John 15:1-5 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Luk 8:8 And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Luk 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep [it], and bring forth fruit with patience.

Who has a good heart? Jer 17:9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?

God must prepare the Ground, (heart) to receive the Seed of Christ and being Born Again which I have no choice in. Mat 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth [it] not, then cometh the wicked [one], and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

Who gives understanding to the Heart? God through the Holy Spirit, the only Teacher that can give truth to the heart of man and convict it of sin and give it the ability to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of The Living God and there is no other Person in whom Salvation Comes. "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing."

In Christ: Good Ground Prepared and A Branch Abiding in the Vine being Purged. Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/9/25 2:17Profile





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