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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Born Again By What Means

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 Re: Born Again By What Means

Quote:
Many teach that the good ground speaks of those who have been born again.

Really?

How do they justify this conclusion?

Quote:
The ground is good because they hear the word, and they accept it.

No.

Anyone who has done serious planting, (or decorating!) knows that [u]preparation[/u] is paramount to a fruitful outcome.

I see a parallel with pregnancy, in that an unborn child can hear. Likewise, before we are born again, we [i]hear[/i] the word of God coming to us, and quickening us fleetingly. Similar to Jeff's comment:
Quote:
many have only the testimony of that moment. Nothing follows...

In Jesus parable, the seed is the word. Initially, it is out of sight in the ground, as the unborn child. Only as it germinates (develops) and breaks through into the light, is it recognised as [i]thriving[/i].

When a child thrives, it is demonstrating the power of life and growth effortlessly.

 2006/9/21 6:53
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

The Ground is good because the Sower has prepared it for planting. All other ground is sinking sand.

The Seed that is planted is the Word and who is the Word. Back to the birthing again. No man can come to the Father except by the Seed of Christ in him. No man can say that Jesus Christ is the Son of God unless it is revealed to him by the Father. The good ground is the only ground that can be planted and Fruit come from it. The Father prepares the ground The Father plants the Seed which is Christ a Person and the increase is Christ in you the Hope of Glory.

Man has nothing to do with preparing himself, that is good ground, only the Father can do the cultivation, Plant the Seed, The Seed of Christ producing the Fruit theirof, The Seed planted in the good ground has never been planted in that ground before and what comes forth is a completely new creature full of fruit of the Seed Planted. 1 Peter 1:23-25 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

The Word of God? John 1:1-5 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

WE believers comprehend it because the Holy Spirit Comforter has been sent to reveal this Word, Jesus Christ that is birthed in us because we now believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of the Living God.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2006/9/21 16:51Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
The Seed that is planted is the Word and who is the Word. Back to the birthing again. No man can come to the Father except by the Seed of Christ in him. No man can say that Jesus Christ is the Son of God unless it is revealed to him by the Father.



When you say that it is God who sows the Seed in them, does this also apply to this group?

Mark 4:

14 The sower sows the word. 15 And these are the ones by the wayside where the word is sown. When they hear, Satan comes immediately and takes away the word that was sown in their hearts.

When Scripture says that "the word was sown in theirs hearts," do you accept it for what it says?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/9/22 0:00Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Sister wrote:

Quote:
Anyone who has done serious planting, (or decorating!) knows that preparation is paramount to a fruitful outcome.



This thought reminds me of this Scripture...

Ephesians 2:
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Do you see the part where "God prepared beforehand," what is this really speaking about?


Quote:
In Jesus parable, the seed is the word. Initially, it is out of sight in the ground, as the unborn child. Only as it germinates (develops) and breaks through into the light, is it recognised as thriving.



In these two groups the seed germinates and is visible for all to see. But what happens?

Mark 4

16 These likewise are the ones sown on stony ground who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with gladness; 17 and they have no root in themselves, and so endure only for a time. Afterward, when tribulation or persecution arises for the word’s sake, immediately they stumble. 18 Now these are the ones sown among thorns; they are the ones who hear the word, 19 and the cares of this world, the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things entering in choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.

Remember, the seed itself is incorruptible...

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/9/22 0:17Profile
Azulfire
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Joined: 2005/5/30
Posts: 51
Washington state

 Re:

aww the never ending cycle of life to the farmer
seeds, roots and fruits
fallow ground, good ground,bad seeds good seeds, deep roots, shallow roots and off shoots, bad fruit, good fruit. one waters another weeds....

Hsa 10:12 Sow to yourselves in righteousness, reap in mercy; break up your fallow ground: for [it is] time to seek the LORD, till he come and rain righteousness upon you.
:-)

I know my post has nothing to do with being born again......but we are always a work in progress growing from Glory to Glory


_________________
michelle

 2006/9/22 0:34Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

It takes a Father's Seed to make son's. The Ground which the Seed is planted in must be soil according to bringing forth or the Seed that is Planted cannot be good seed. By the wayside is not the prepared Ground. Can Satan abort the Incorruptable Seed planted by the Father? The answer is no, for Christ is the Seed.

Christ orders Satan aside when it comes to good ground prepared by the Sower. Why would an intelligent Sower put good Seed by the wayside. It is like crop dusting, when a rice field is planted some of the seed spills over and falls by the wayside and is not intended for the ground that has been prepared to be a rice field, by the One saying where the Seed is to be planted. The same is as the world, They hear the word and their heart was not prepared, and comes forth The ,Oh well, the Seed will spring up but because it is in the wrong place and does not receive water and fertilizer it dies quickly.
The same Seed is for the whole world but only the good ground prepared will bring forth fruit unto salvation. The Seed sowed in the World must be sown in Good Ground or the Seed will not grow and Christ will say I never new you even if the ground thinks the seed is in them because they heard from the Good Ground What Good Seed in Good Ground will do for them. Luk 13:27 But He shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all [ye] workers of iniquity.

The Heart of man is deceitfully wicked and if the Heart is not prepared the Seed will not take root or grow in the good heart ground prepared by the Sower.

Again, all other ground is sinking sand.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2006/9/22 0:56Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Sister Michelle wrote:

Quote:
aww the never ending cycle of life to the farmer
seeds, roots and fruits



Why do you suppose that it is a never ending cycle?

Why do we wrestle with this parable?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/9/22 2:09Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
The Ground which the Seed is planted in must be soil according to bringing forth or the Seed that is Planted cannot be good seed.



Matthew
13:18 “Therefore hear the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart.

Luke 8:
Luke 8:11 “Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

According to Scripture all the seed is good because it "is the word of God."

So God does not sow bad seed, so then where does the responsibility according to Scripture lie?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/9/22 2:15Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

"The Ground which the Seed is planted in must be soil according to bringing forth, or the Seed that is Planted cannot be good seed."

This is not saying that God is planting bad seed. The ground must be God's ground, because if the seed does not come forth it would be bad seed if it were not God's Seed which can never be bad Seed because it is the Word of God and the Word of God is Christ. Good ground will bring forth fruit unto Good Seed. No man can till his own ground or plant any seed that will bring forth fruit unto salvation or fruit.

Only God is the Husbandman and the same thing goes for the Vine and the Branches. What are the commandments of Christ? Love one another. If you believe in me, you believe in Him who sent me. If the Spirit of Christ be in you, the Spirit of my Father is also in you because you believe in me, and I will also send you another Comforter the Holy Spirit, be ye fill with Him and I am my Father will come and make our abode with you. These are His Commandments.

John 15:1-17 I am the true vine, and my Father is the Husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit He taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, He purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. These things I command you, that ye love one another.

God prepares the vine just like He prepares the ground for the Seed. He knows exactly where to plant the Vine and exactly what branches to prune and exactly which branches to throw away. He knows exactly how to jib and girdle the grape vine bearing branches to bring for the biggest Grapes and the exact time when the sugar is at its peak for the biggest and sweetest fruit.

God will not allow bad fruit or bad Seed, because the Seed is Christ and the fruit is of Christ in us the Hope of Glory, not of self which are bad branches and are burned.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2006/9/22 3:14Profile









 Re: Born Again By What Means

Jeff asked

Quote:
Do you see the part where "God prepared beforehand," what is this really speaking about?



James 1
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, [b]and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls[/b].

22 But [b]be ye doers of the word[/b], and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, [b]he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed[/b].

26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

27 [b]Pure religion[/b] and undefiled before God and the Father [b]is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world[/b].


James 2
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?


Ephesians 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places [u]in Christ[/u]:

4 According as he hath chosen us [b]in him [u]before the foundation of the world[/u][/b], that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to [b]the good pleasure [u]of his will[/u][/b],

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein [b]he hath made us accepted [u]in the beloved[/u][/b].

7 [u]In whom we have redemption[/u] through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

9 [b]Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which [u]he hath purposed in himself[/u][/b]:


Jeff, I really don't want to talk about predestination, because I've been thinking recently, about this phrase from Romans 11:

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the [u]election of grace[/u].


OK, so what is 'the election of grace'?

Isn't it simply this?.....:

Luke 14
A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:

17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.

18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse.

21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.

22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.

23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and [b]compel them to come in[/b], that my house may be filled.


Doesn't [i][b]grace[/i][/b] go out and seek the lost - the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind - on the streets of the city and the countryside?

The s[i]election[/i] is done [u]by those who accept the invitation[/u].... [i]not[/i] by the host.

[i]Grace[/i] goes out like a heat-seeking missile, to find it's target.... weaknesses in the pride and rebellion of man.... people who are ready to admit defeat, and receive gifts from a Giver they could never hope to repay adequately.

But, being found [u]in Him[/u], they [b]find[/b] they are home. He has known them from before their beginning, and instead of being lost, they are caught up in His eternal purpose for their earthly lives.


Deuteronomy 30
15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

20 That thou mayest [b]love[/b] the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest [b]obey[/b] his voice, and that thou mayest [b]cleave[/b] unto him: [b]for he is thy life[/b]

 2006/9/22 6:54





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