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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Born Again By What Means

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 Re: Born Again By What Means

Jeff asked

Quote:
Do we differ, in God's plan, from our Forerunner that is Christ?

Yes and no!

[b]Yes[/b], in that many of us are running the race, but have not suffered in the flesh such that we have ceased from sin (1 Peter 4:1 Therefore, since Christ has suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same purpose, because he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin,), nor have been asked to die physically during our tribulation for Him, as the early Christians did.

[b]No[/b], in that what He did

Hebrews 10
19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus

20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

21 And [having] an high priest over the house of God;

22 [u]Let us draw near[/u] with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

23 [u]Let us hold fast[/u] the profession of [our] faith without wavering; (for he [is] faithful that promised;)

24 And [b]let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works

[/b]25 [b]Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some [is]; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching[/b].

enabled us for the first time, to begin to live like He lived on the earth before His death. This we MUST do, until we die physically (which is, of course, 'being' like Him).

 2006/9/10 13:20









 Re: Born Again By What Means

Quote:
is how the flesh [b]overcomes the old man[/b] and becomes a new creature in Christ Jesus.

?

Phillip,

Romans 6:6
Knowing this, that [u]our old man [b]is crucified[/b] with him[/u],

Either we have accepted the death of 'our old man' in principle, as a step within the process of being born again, or, we are still battling with the full force of Sin in our lives, by works.

There is no 'rest' until we have 'believed' in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ on our behalf.


Phillip and Jeff: sorry I'm so short of time these days! :-(

 2006/9/10 13:26
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Our bodies with Christ in this temple: By which the Holy Spirit says is His and has quickened the flesh by His presence in us, is how the flesh overcomes the old man and becomes a new creature in Christ Jesus.

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, He that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Any one in Christ that believes they can be a Christian within this body of flesh without the Holy Spirit quickening it will never reach maturity in Christ.

1Cr 15:36 [Thou] fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

Are we dead? If crucifixion causes death, we are dead to this world.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Our rest is in being justified in Christ, by His Faith. Without Christ being in a person there is no justification. God has made Christ our sanctification and righteousness, this is Justification by the Christ that is in us. We no longer live, but are alive in Christ and dead to sin. Where death is, sin no longer has any hold on the dead. All the sin of the world was in the cup that Christ drank, and His body is the only Body that could do that. The old testament saints did not have this capacity, for their sin was still in the cup and Christ had not drank of it until the Cross. Our Cross is the Cross we hang on with Christ, our death is the death of the Cross with Christ. Our new life is the same resurrection of Christ, if we died with Him we live with Him. He is in heavenly places and we are seated with Him in Spirit and Soul and quickened in body and will be seated with Him in the same kind of Body as He has. Galatians 2:20-21 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Saying that those that were under the Law are saved the same way after the Cross is frustrating to God, because Grace is frustrated and Christ is dead in vain.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2006/9/11 6:08Profile









 Re: Born Again By What Means

Phillip said

Quote:
Where death is, sin no longer has any hold on the dead. ...

The old testament saints did not have this capacity, for their sin was still in the cup and Christ had not drank of it until the Cross. ..

Our new life is the same resurrection of Christ, if we died with Him we live with Him....

Ephesians 2
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

6 And hath raised [b]us up together[/b], and made sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:


Amen.

We receive all this, by allowing the word to us, to be coupled with faith.

 2006/9/11 7:33
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Sister Dorcas and Brother Phillip,

There are different kinds of promises that God makes with those whom He promises to be God to them. There are promises that impact the individuals life in respect to the predestined work that He has planned for the individual. Other promises are highlighted by Christ in the Sermon on the Mount. Then there is the promise of the Resurection.

If we are new creatures according to how you have described in these last posts, why then does God's plan include the resurrection of our bodies?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/9/12 6:26Profile









 Re: Born Again By What Means

Quote:
If we are new creatures according to how you have described in these last posts, why then does God's plan include the resurrection of our bodies?

Jeff,

As I understand it, our bodies being resurrected is one thing, and putting on immortality is another.

This scripture answers some of your question for me, but I hope you will post how [i]you[/i] understand God's plan in that respect.

(YNG) Colossians 1
.. all things through him, and for him, have been created,

17 and himself is before all, and [b]the all things in him have consisted[/b].

18 And himself is the head of the body--the assembly--who is a beginning, a first-born out of the dead, that he might become in all [things] --himself--first,

19 because in him it did please all the fulness to tabernacle,

20 and [u]through him[/u] to reconcile the all things to himself--having made peace through the blood of his cross--through him, whether the things upon the earth, whether the things in the heavens.

21 And you--once being alienated, and enemies in the mind, in the evil works, yet now did he reconcile,

22 in the body of his flesh through the death, to present you holy, and unblemished, and unblameable before himself,

23 if also ye remain in the faith


When God began to tabernacle with man, it was in a complex tent of skins and curtains. When God became Man, the revelation of His will was far clearer. He was subject to limitations for that season. We will have our limitations removed for ever. It's all something to do with being made like Him for eternity....

 2006/9/12 8:01
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Mark 4:13 And He said to them, “Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables?

14 The sower sows the word.

One's life is founded and perserved by the word of God. If you look to this first parable you will see that Jesus has described that which determines eternity for each individual.

11 And He said to them, “To you it has been given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God; but to those who are outside, all things come in parables, 12 so that
“Seeing they may see and not perceive,
And hearing they may hear and not understand;
Lest they should turn,
And their sins be forgiven them.’ ”

The mystery of the kingdom of God finds it's revelation according to the word of God. This mystery is taught by Paul who has received the stewardship of explaining it to the Gentiles. This mystery of Christ in you is the elementary principle spoken of by the writer of Hebrews. This elementary principle defines the plan that the Father has predestined in Christ before the foundations of this world. Yet according to Scripture we are continually given examples of those who have recieved the promises of God and those who have denied God. All of these things are elementary according to Hebrews 6:1-3

Heb. 6:1 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do if God permits.

When the author of Hebrews exhorts the believers to leave the elementary priciples of Christ, he also points to something more. "Let us go on to perfection..." Throughout Scripture we are encouraged to mature, to grow otherwise the believer remains simple in his understanding of God. Perfection has nothing to do with the flesh or the body. Listen to Paul's exhortation,

Phil. 3:3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh, 4 though I also might have confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so:

I labor to divide and define how God saves according to the Scriptures. Throughout Scripture it is knowledge of God and when applied, becomes the wisdom of God to the individual. Where does all wisdom that defines righteousness emaninate from? Jesus

How do we recognize Him? According to Scripture, how do we know that we are born from above In Christ? What is the proof?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/9/12 21:26Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

2 Corinthians 5:1-9 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of Him.

Present or absent from the body is not the important part of salvation, but that we may be accepted of Him. Where are we accepted?
Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of His Grace, wherein He hath made us accepted ((in)) the Beloved.

There is a mystery of how the body, soul, and spirit function. There is a scripture that seems to give us a blue print of how it works.
It says we have a body, It says we have a spirit, it says we have a soul. Hbr 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The Word of God divides these into three in one, just as the God Head is also One God with three different mechanisms of God in dealing with man.
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

If we have a spirit and Christ is now that Spirit, there is a clear division of soul and spirit, yet being one in context. If our spirit is now the Spirit of Christ, which scripture defines as a new creation creature. 2 Corinthians 5:16-17 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

We who believe now have the Spirit of Christ in our spirit which was dead and is now made alive in Christ. This is part of the mystery Paul is speaking about which was hid to all creation and is not revealed to the Saints, the birthed son's of God, by which it is Christ in you the Hope of Glory.

Then we come to the soul in which the Holy Spirit is the life of the soul, the mechanism by which we know this Christ that is in us. Next Post.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2006/9/13 5:03Profile
linda7
Member



Joined: 2006/4/23
Posts: 101
West Sussex, England

 Re: Born Again By What Means

Rookie wrote

Quote:
Peter states that it is the word of God that causes one to be born again.



just popping in but saw this interesting post. In response, according to my experience also, it comes through believing God's written word (1 John 5:13). Also one must come as a little child (Luke 18:17), therefore pride would be a hindrance. One must rest on the word, but also upon Jesus Himself who the word reveals (1 John 5:11, 12). This must come from the heart - will, emotions, reasonings must cooperate (Rom 10:9, 10). One must receive Him as an act of faith (John 1:12) Then He gives power to become the sons of God.

It is a divine act: birth by the Spirit (John 1:13). It is a mystery, "The wind bloweth where it listeth....".

Evidences of being Born Again:

One escapes the corruption in the world because a new nature has been implanted within (11 Pet. 1:4).

One overcomes the world (1 John 5:4).

One is delivered from the practice of sin, and a single act of sin has been provided for by appeal to Jesus Christ our Advocate.

The Born Again believer loves God; the center of interest goes from self to God (Rom 5:5). Love to the bretheren follows automatically (1 John 3:14).

The means of this transformation is by keeping our eyes upon Christ Jesus (11 Cor. 3:18).

Praise and thanks be to God for the wonderful new life He has given, and for leaving The Word of God in written form, that we might confirm our own experience and learn from Him.

Linda
:-)


_________________
Linda

 2006/9/13 16:03Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Phillip quotes:

Quote:
2 Corinthians 5:1-9 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.



In this part of Scripture Paul speaks of "this tabernacle". He is refering to our earthly bodies. Then he speaks of a "building of God" which is "eternal in the heavens." He speaks of groaning for something we yet do not have. Then he speaks of clothing which is not of this earth. He speaks of not wanting to be "found naked".

What does Paul mean when He talks about being "naked." What does this imply about the nature of our earthly bodies?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/9/14 4:27Profile





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