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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Born Again By What Means

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PosterThread
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Sister Dorcas wrote:

Quote:
I can testify this is not my experience of His work in my flesh. I believe my mortal body is already being quickened, and will, finally, be totally transformed by resurrection.



I have experienced those things which cause my heart to cry out to Him. I have experienced being totally emptied of myself, without thought of anything pretaining to the body while worshiping Him. All that I could do is cry. I have had two dreams which frame the path that I am on. These things or experiences do not affect my flesh but transforms my desire from that of the old man to the hope and desire to know Him. My flesh is dying yet my spirit is being renewed. My physical body is growing old and withering like the grass in autumn.


Psa. 119:40 Behold, I have longed after thy precepts: quicken me in thy righteousness.

Psa. 119:50 This is my comfort in my affliction: for thy word hath quickened me.

Psa. 119:88 Quicken me after thy lovingkindness; so shall I keep the testimony of thy mouth.

Psa. 119:93 I will never forget thy precepts: for with them thou hast quickened me.

Psa. 119:107 I am afflicted very much: quicken me, O LORD, according unto thy word.

Psa. 119:149 Hear my voice according unto thy lovingkindness: O LORD, quicken me according to thy judgment.

Psa. 119:154 Plead my cause, and deliver me: quicken me according to thy word.

Psa. 119:156 Great are thy tender mercies, O LORD: quicken me according to thy judgments.

Psa. 119:159 Consider how I love thy precepts: quicken me, O LORD, according to thy lovingkindness.

These Scriptures speak of spiritual life.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/8/31 6:34Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

Yea, Jeff

We must decrease and He must increase.

John 3:27-30 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven. Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him. He that hath the bride is the Bridegroom: but the friend of the Bridegroom, which standeth and heareth Him, rejoiceth greatly because of the Bridegroom's Voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled. He must increase, but I must decrease.

We are the friends, that is what Jesus now calls us until resurrection morning. Friends of Jesus, Adopted son's of The Father, with the Incorruptable Seed of the Father rebirthed in us. "Christ in you the Hope of Glory."

In Christ by the Seed of the Father: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2006/8/31 15:41Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Paul writes in Romans 8:

22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.

Ephesians 1:

Eph. 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

In both of these sections of Scripture we find that Paul is teaching that we have been given the Holy Spirit as the
"guarantee of our inheritance" by the Holy Spirit we are "waiting for the adoption, which is the redemption of our body."

Paul teaches that the body we now have is dead because of sin,

Romans 8: 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Then he teaches "but the Spirit is life because of righteousness."

In the life we now live in Christ, does Paul's definition of the new creation include our corrupt bodies?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/9/4 11:45Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Psalm 103

Psa. 103:1 Bless the LORD, O my soul;
And all that is within me, bless His holy name!
2 Bless the LORD, O my soul,
And forget not all His benefits:
3 Who forgives all your iniquities,
Who heals all your diseases,
4 Who redeems your life from destruction,
Who crowns you with lovingkindness and tender mercies,
5 Who satisfies your mouth with good things,
So that your youth is renewed like the eagle’s.

Is this a picture of salvation?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/9/5 20:15Profile









 Re:

Quote:

Christinyou wrote:
"""Do we differ, in God's plan, from our Forerunner that is Christ?"""

YES! How could they be in a Christ that is not attainable by the birthing of Christ in them. The resurrected Christ could not be in them. He was with them as the Holy Spirit was upon them, but not in them or them in Him. Theirs is worldly our is Heavenly. Just like our resurrection, theirs is unto this earth our is unto the heavenly place Christ is preparing for us. We are a new creation, not the oldness of the Law in temple rights, but the newness of us now being the temple. The Holy of Holies is not longer in Jerusalem. The Holy of Holies is our Quickened Bodies, Minds, and Souls. Without the Holy of Holies there is not availability to come boldly to the Throne. Israel cannot even have a Priest that can have their sin's forgiven anymore. The only Holy of Holies is in Christ and by believing that Christ is the Son of God, then all that believe have that availability in them, Born Again son's of God. Now we who have Christ in us can still have the High Priest availability to the Father by the High Priest, Jesus Christ Himself bring us the the Throne of God by His Sacrifice, the Blood is on the altar forever and we have gone in the Holy of Holies through the rent curtain and have immediately access to the Father by the High Priest that is our new life. The veil no longer separates us for the Father, The Word of God plainly states this, come boldly to the throne:

Hebrews 4:12-16 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of Him with whom we have to do. Seeing then that we have a great High Priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an High Priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

How could we go to the Throne of Grace which is far higher than the mercy seat in the earthly temple, which no man can reach now. It does not exist. The Throne of Grace does exist, and it is in Heaven and we can approach it boldly because we are one with the High Priest Himself, old is earthly, new is heavenly.

In Christ: Phillip



Very good piece; great insight, Phillip. It doesn't get more intimate than that that we might "tangibly touch" the Father.

It begs the question: What manner of men ought we be knowing that we carry about in our human flesh Him who is above all? Perhaps another question might be, is it not the true role of the Church to nurture the born again into being a perfect temple? I crave fellowship with a church body having that sensitivity to the Lord.

In Jesus,

Orm

 2006/9/6 6:54









 Re: Born Again By What Means


rookie asked

Quote:
In the life we now live in Christ, does Paul's definition of the new creation include our corrupt bodies?

I say it does.

Because without our bodies in service to the Father and the Son, we are not the Body of Christ on the earth.

Further, unless our bodies are involved, our children are not holy, we cannot speak in tongues, we cannot sing in the Spirit, we cannot prophesy, or give any other word from God.

Our bodies do not rule us as they did before we died with Christ, but, we need our bodies still. And, unless we turn our flesh to serving Him, we will be in the 'depart from me I never knew you, workers of iniquity' for not having [i]done the will of the Father[/i].

Unless we can believe our bodies are now able to please God by serving righteousness (Rom 6), there isn't much point in bothering with new birth, is there?

Romans 6
even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things [is] death.

22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.


Romans 7
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, [even] to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

6 [b]But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should [u]serve in newness of spirit[/u], and not [in] the oldness of the letter[/b].


What do we 'serve' with at the impetus of the new spirit?

With our fleshly bodies, now DEAD to sin and ALIVE to righteousness.

 2006/9/8 13:01
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

Our bodies with Christ in this temple which the Holy Spirit says is His and has quickened the flesh by His presence in us, is how the flesh overcomes the old man and becomes a new creature in Christ Jesus.

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, He that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Any one in Christ that thinks they can be a Christian within this body of flesh without the Holy Spirit quickening it will never reach maturity in Christ.

1Cr 15:36 [Thou] fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

What the Holy Spirit sows is in the soul that is being renewed, this flesh we now live in by the Spirit of Christ is quickened by the Holy Spirit to contain the life that has been born again in us because we believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of the Living God, now able to be planted and bring forth fruit. The Incorruptable Seed can now be capable of the same resurrection as Christ. We will have the same body as He does. Bringing forth the dead in Christ and those that are alive and in Christ at the Rapture are the only ones that can bring forth fruit, Christ being the first fruit.

We have already been changed in Spirit by the Christ that is in us, for the old spirit died on the cross with Christ. The soul is being renewed to the new life of Christ in you the hope of Glory by the Holy Spirit. The body is quickened and contains the Seed that can be planted and bring forth fruit. Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Oh that we might see what God has wrought in Christ Jesus to the effect, we are new creatures in Christ Jesus never before on this earth, as Paul states many times.

Eph 2:1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

Unless Christ is our quickened spirit The Incorruptable Seed cannot bring forth fruit unto the Soul being quickened by The Holy Spirit that Is now in this temple of His. That is why the flesh has been quickened and now contains Life of God that when the body is planted or changed in the twinkling of an eye, it can now bring forth the flesh and bone that can enter the Kingdom of God in our Father's House. Without the Incorruptable Seed being in the new creature it cannot bring forth fruit, Christ being the first fruit. That is why our body will be just like His, It now has the Life of the Incorruptable Seed in it, and being quickened by the life of the Seed which is Christ in you the Hope of Glory, it can know the things of the Kingdom of God.

Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


The Spirit of Christ in the believer is now the perfect Seed that can bring forth the things of the Kingdom of God directed in our Soul being renewed to that Spirit by the Holy Spirit and the body now quickened by the Holy Spirit can bring forth the body of flesh and bone that is just like Jesus Christ being the first fruit and us capable of the same fruit, By His Incorruptable Seed born again in us.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


In Christ: Phillip




_________________
Phillip

 2006/9/8 17:34Profile









 Re: Born Again By What Means


Jeff, I was coming to put up another couple of verses, but you will know them - that our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, and that we are living stones in The Temple - the Body of Christ.

I think something philologos said in a different thread (on Original Sin), has sparked this response to

Quote:
My physical body is growing old and withering like the grass in autumn.

Yes, but that is because of the sentence of death on it, (which is applied already to our spiritual condition of sinfulness through faith in Christ), not because sin is still [i][b]reigning[/i][/b] in it.

I think the word 'corrupt' is better translated as 'rotting', than 'rotten'. The damage was done to our bodies regarding eternal life, in Adam. In him we died physically. But, through Christ the [i]reason[/i] for that death has been diverted to Himself, that we may be spared the consequences of it in our spirits.

 2006/9/10 7:25









 Re: Born Again By What Means

Quote:
Do we differ, in God's plan, from our Forerunner that is Christ?

Yes.

Christ's Flesh would never have died, had He not been crucified. And, when He was crucified, Sin was destroyed with its power; the devil with his power was overcome; fear was rendered reversible; spiritual death was abolished for any who wish eternal life.

I agree that we also need a resurrection body, but Paul says it is the Spirit which IS IN US which will quicken our mortal bodies.

[b]Are you really saying that you don't believe this starts happening at new birth?[/b]

Further, I believe that as we eat Him - the Word - our lives should begin to become 'the word made flesh', to each other and the world. To me, this is an essential aspect of the gospel. I am not waiting till I die physcially, for it. It would be useless then anyway, when we shall be completed and 'like Him' by then already, according to 1 John 3:2.

 2006/9/10 7:41









 Re: Born Again By What Means

Jeff asked

Quote:
When God created Adam out of the dust, was it his body that resembled God's image?

Yes. EVERYTHING resembled God's image

 2006/9/10 7:44





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