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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Born Again By What Means

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Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
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 Re:

Colossians 3:1-5 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is
hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

If we are risen with Christ, our old nature is dead, and now that we have the Mind of Christ, we are the ones that accomplish and do what follows verse 5 in Col 3.

Colossians 3:5-8 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.

Who mortifies the body? Who puts off all these?
anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. You'd do it.

Colossians 3:9-10 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Who does not lie to one another? Who puts off the old man? Who puts on the new man in Christ Jesus? You'd do it.

The New man is renewed in knowledge. Where is the knowledge after the image of Christ renewed? In your mind by the Holy Spirit with the Spirit of Christ and the Mind of Christ.

Again how is this accomplished. If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with Him in glory.

We are dead and hid with Christ in God. Christ is our life, and when He appears we will appear with Him in Glory.

Romans 8:11-13 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Quicken; 2227. zoopoieo
Search for G2227 in KJVSL
zwopoiew zoopoieo dzo-op-oy-eh'-o

from the same as 2226 and 4160; to (re-)vitalize (literally or figuratively):--make alive, give life, quicken.

Shall; Same word in the Greek. 2227. zoopoieo
Search for G2227 in KJVSL
zwopoiew zoopoieo dzo-op-oy-eh'-o

from the same as 2226 and 4160; to (re-)vitalize (literally or figuratively):--make alive, give life, quicken.

The only thing that brings Shall and Quicken together is the copulative word also. 2532. kai
Search for G2532 in KJVSL
kai kai kahee

apparently, a primary particle, having a copulative and sometimes also a cumulative force; and, also, even, so then, too, etc.; often used in connection (or composition) with other particles or small words:--and, also, both, but, even, for, if, or, so, that, then, therefore, when, yet.

I see no future tense in this "shall also quicken" but a particle, copulative and cumulative in tense. But should read, quicken even therefore also quicken.

Again who does it? "but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." We do it. We do it because we have been quickened by the Spirit of Him so we would have the nature to accomplish the Quickening we have been given.

In Christ: Phillip




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Phillip

 2006/8/22 4:21Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
If we are risen with Christ, our old nature is dead, and now that we have the Mind of Christ, we are the ones that accomplish and do what follows verse 5 in Col 3.



Why does Paul continue to correct those who have the mind of Christ?

Why did the Ephesians suffer so much correction from Paul and Timothy?

How is it that the Ephesians left their first love?

Is it because they chose to follow the flesh or the Spirit?


The answer is found in this Scripture..

Proverbs 14:14 "The backslider in heart will be filled with his own ways, but a good man will be satisfied from above."

That is where Christ sits in the heavenlies.
In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/8/22 12:02Profile
Christinyou
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 Re:

Jeff, you must know that a change has happened to those in Christ.

Your Question: Quote, "Why did the Ephesians suffer so much correction from Paul and Timothy?"

Answer, They did not know the Christ that was in them. Paul would have no other reason to show the Ephesians the epitome of our Salvation, That is Christ in you the Hope of Glory. Then the backslider in heart, when that Proverb was written had no knowledge of the Mystery of Christ in them the hope of Glory. Christ had to come and be Crucified on the Cross to sit in the Heavenlies so we could sit with Him. This is where Christ is, He is in you and you in Him, you are a new creature and a new man in Christ Jesus. It is your choice to stay in the old man, but it is much better for the believer to know his born again status in Christ and make a new life in Christ Jesus rather than stay in the old man syndrome and never reach the place on this earth that God intended us to be in Christ Jesus, making us a new man and son's of God.
That is why Paul keeps correcting, as in all his letters. They did not understand what great salvation they truly have in Christ Jesus and it is like having a first love then leaving because their hearts and minds were not kept on Him. Keep you heart and mind one Him. As in reference to marriage love your wife in Christ as you know God loves you, and in reference to the Church love your wife as Christ loves His bride the Church and is One with Her and gave Himself for Her, don't leave your first love, give yourself for Him. He gave Himself for you. And me and all those that believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/8/22 15:05Profile









 Re: Born Again By What Means


Hi Jeff,

Quote:
.. I have been moving all our earthly belongings to Lancaster PA...

That's interesting. Quite a change, I should think, too, unless you've lived in the north before?

Quote:
I am not schooled in the details of greek and tenses. Upon looking up the word "quickened" strongs placed this word in Romans 8:11 in the future tense.

This may be so, but that would be consistent with the condition for being quickened, namely to make the choice to walk in the Spirit.

We are not being quickened against our will. Again (KJV)

Romans 8
7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that [u]are[/u] [i](present tense - emphasis mine)[/i] in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.

11 But [b]if[/b] the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead [u]shall also quicken[/u] your mortal bodies by his Spirit [u]that dwelleth in you[/u]. [i](present tense - emphasis mine)[/i]


These verses are in the present tense completely, apart from the condition of the indwelling Spirit being obeyed, the consequence of which - future - will be the quickening of our mortal bodies.


Jeff, I don't think you can use either Romans 7 or Hebrews 11:40 to back up your thesis, as these both speak to a time [i][b]before[/b][/i] the full effects of new birth have been expounded by scripture (and, in that context, have been experienced by the believer within the linear progression those authors are expounding).

Without doubt, the flesh life - inasmuchas it sins - must be mortified, [u]but[/u], [b]if[/b] our bodies are [i][b]not[/b][/i] quickened in this life, you are suggesting God means we are to try to serve Him with unredeemable flesh - that [i][b]only[/i][/b] vehicle we have - that body which is made in [i][b]His own image[/b][/i] - is still so flawed after salvation, and His power is still so hampered by those flaws, that the healing ministry demonstrated by Jesus Christ to the multitudes in Israel, and the ministry of the Holy Spirit to the flesh body of the believer are both inadequate to [i][b]begin[/b][/i] to transform this most substantial part of our beings, through which our souls are experienced and formed.

I can testify this is not my experience of His work in my flesh. I believe my mortal body is already being quickened, and will, finally, be totally transformed by resurrection.


 2006/8/23 11:31
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
That is why Paul keeps correcting, as in all his letters. They did not understand what great salvation they truly have in Christ Jesus and it is like having a first love then leaving because their hearts and minds were not kept on Him.



I do not disagree at all with your message Phillip. What I am trying to root out is the fact that Paul and Timothy continue to exhort all believer's of the truth of our position in Christ.

How does one come to understand this truth? Does it eminate from the carnal mind or from the Spirit that is in us?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/8/23 13:14Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Sis wrote:

Quote:
These verses are in the present tense completely, apart from the condition of the indwelling Spirit being obeyed, the consequence of which - future - will be the quickening of our mortal bodies.





Quote:
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. (present tense - emphasis mine)



According to the above Scripture, Christ the forerunner demonstrates to us the path. Christ died a physical death and then the Father through the Spirit raised Christ body up.

Do we differ, in God's plan, from our Forerunner that is Christ?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/8/23 13:24Profile
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Joined: 2003/6/3
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 Re:

Sis wrote:

Quote:
Without doubt, the flesh life - inasmuchas it sins - must be mortified, but, if our bodies are not quickened in this life, you are suggesting God means we are to try to serve Him with unredeemable flesh - that only vehicle we have - that body which is made in His own image



When God created Adam out of the dust, was it his body that resembled God's image?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/8/24 9:26Profile
Christinyou
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Posts: 3710
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 Re:

"""Do we differ, in God's plan, from our Forerunner that is Christ?"""

YES! How could they be in a Christ that is not attainable by the birthing of Christ in them. The resurrected Christ could not be in them. He was with them as the Holy Spirit was upon them, but not in them or them in Him. Theirs is worldly our is Heavenly. Just like our resurrection, theirs is unto this earth our is unto the heavenly place Christ is preparing for us. We are a new creation, not the oldness of the Law in temple rights, but the newness of us now being the temple. The Holy of Holies is not longer in Jerusalem. The Holy of Holies is our Quickened Bodies, Minds, and Souls. Without the Holy of Holies there is not availability to come boldly to the Throne. Israel cannot even have a Priest that can have their sin's forgiven anymore. The only Holy of Holies is in Christ and by believing that Christ is the Son of God, then all that believe have that availability in them, Born Again son's of God. Now we who have Christ in us can still have the High Priest availability to the Father by the High Priest, Jesus Christ Himself bring us the the Throne of God by His Sacrifice, the Blood is on the altar forever and we have gone in the Holy of Holies through the rent curtain and have immediately access to the Father by the High Priest that is our new life. The veil no longer separates us for the Father, The Word of God plainly states this, come boldly to the throne:

Hebrews 4:12-16 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of Him with whom we have to do. Seeing then that we have a great High Priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an High Priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

How could we go to the Throne of Grace which is far higher than the mercy seat in the earthly temple, which no man can reach now. It does not exist. The Throne of Grace does exist, and it is in Heaven and we can approach it boldly because we are one with the High Priest Himself, old is earthly, new is heavenly.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/8/25 13:27Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
"""Do we differ, in God's plan, from our Forerunner that is Christ?"""

YES!



The point of my question is tied to the Scripture which Sister Dorcas posted.

Romans 8:

10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.


First, in verse 10 Paul teaches that if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin...

What is Paul saying here... "the body is dead because of sin..."

Is he refering to our bodies made of the dust or is he speaking of spiritual things?



In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/8/29 0:57Profile
rookie
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 Re:

Psalm 71:

15 My mouth shall shew forth thy righteousness and thy salvation all the day; for I know not the numbers thereof. 16 I will go in the strength of the Lord GOD: I will make mention of thy righteousness, even of thine only. 17 O God, thou hast taught me from my youth: and hitherto have I declared thy wondrous works. 18 Now also when I am old and grayheaded, O God, forsake me not; until I have shewed thy strength unto this generation, and thy power to every one that is to come. 19 Thy righteousness also, O God, is very high, who hast done great things: O God, who is like unto thee! 20 Thou, which hast shewed me great and sore troubles, shalt quicken me again, and shalt bring me up again from the depths of the earth.

In this Scripture what significance does the word "quicken" have in the last verse?

Is this not the same as what Paul is speaking of in Romans 8:

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

The first part of the verse speaks of the Father by the Spirit raising up Jesus from the dead. The second part also speaks of the same promise for those who now have His Spirit dwelling in them.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/8/29 1:09Profile





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