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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Born Again By What Means

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Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
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 Re:

Christ is our Model. New Model in Spirit,Done. becoming a New Model,becoming done, and will be a New Model on resurrection morning, will be done. On earth as it is in Heaven.

Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. The Flesh.

2Cr 1:10 Who delivered us from so great a death,(Model Done.) and doth deliver: (Model being Done) in whom we trust that he will yet deliver [us]; (Model will be Done)

In Christ: Phillip Done,Spirit being Done,soul will be Done.body.


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Phillip

 2006/6/6 3:03Profile
rookie
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Posts: 4807


 Re:

Sorry Phillip for not responding I have been moving all our earthly belongings to Lancaster PA...


Phil. 3:12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. 13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, 14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.


Here Paul is teaching something different than you.


Quote:
2Cr 1:10 Who delivered us from so great a death,(Model Done.) and doth deliver: (Model being Done) in whom we trust that he will yet deliver [us]; (Model will be Done)



You are correct in saying that Christ is the Model...yet we a new creation are not the done Model.

Paul speaks of not apprehending, not being perfected, yet he presses toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

Why does Paul go to great lengths to encourage, to exhort, to correct those who are the new creation?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/6/20 9:42Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
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 Re:

Hi Jeff,

2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

The done model is our spirit. The Being done model is our soul-mind. The will be done model is our body.

You cannot improve on the Spirit of Christ. It is perfect and thus making our being one in spirit by the Spirit of Christ born again in us, that is the done part. Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Is the Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of The Father One Spirit with the Holy Spirit? We know the answer must be Yes, and that from the Word.

Is the Spirit of Christ and our spirit one Spirit? Same answer. Yes, making us the Body of Christ by the same Spirit. 1Cr 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. That is the Spirit of Christ which is now our spirit.

That is the Done part. Do you believe in the tripartite being, that is body, soul, and spirit? Hbr 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/6/20 15:20Profile
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 Re:

Paul writes...

2Cor. 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

Likewise Isaiah writes...

10 I will greatly rejoice in the LORD,
My soul shall be joyful in my God;
For He has clothed me with the garments of salvation,
He has covered me with the robe of righteousness,
As a bridegroom decks himself with ornaments,
And as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.

What does Paul mean by wanting to be clothed? Is he refering to the Holy Spirit as that which clothes him?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/6/27 18:11Profile
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Joined: 2003/6/3
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 Re:

Brother Phillip asked:

Quote:
That is the Done part. Do you believe in the tripartite being,



This doctrine I have not studied....

I have for the most part given up on men's attempts to define these things according to formulas and definitions. I believe in the power of the Holy Scripture which are illuminated by the Holy Spirit...to give understanding according to His time and ways....

This is according to His promise in the new covenant..

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/6/27 18:17Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
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 Re:

Hi Jeff,

You wrote: ""What does Paul mean by wanting to be clothed? Is he refering to the Holy Spirit as that which clothes him?

In the same frame of mind when he said put on the whole Armour of God. What is the Armour of God. It is Christ working in all three areas of our body, soul, and spirit. That is where I came to the word tripartite man.

Like Paul I want to be clothed with Christ, that is simple, if you have a coat in the closet and don't use it you are unclothed for harsh cold times. Like the Armour. Rom 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
2Cr 6:7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

Stand in the three parts of our being, our body, quickened, our spirit now the Spirit of Christ, our soul mind now filled with the Holy Spirit.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/6/27 23:33Profile
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 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
Stand in the three parts of our being, our body, quickened, our spirit now the Spirit of Christ, our soul mind now filled with the Holy Spirit.



I believe that the body remains corrupt according to Paul's teaching.

1Cor. 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

1Cor. 15:46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.

1Cor. 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”
55 “O Death, where is your sting?
O Hades, where is your victory?”


There will come a time where perfection is accomplished.

Heb. 11:40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/8/12 20:24Profile
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Psalm 119:

130 The entrance of Your words gives light;
It gives understanding to the simple.
131 I opened my mouth and panted,
For I longed for Your commandments.
132 Look upon me and be merciful to me,
As Your custom is toward those who love Your name.
133 Direct my steps by Your word,
And let no iniquity have dominion over me.



"The entrance of Your words gives light; It gives understanding to the simple"...Direct my steps by Your word, and let no iniquity have dominion over me."

The psalmist has come to realize, to understand how God's words impact his life. He speaks of light. He speaks of understanding. And then he prays that God continues to direct his steps so that "no iniquity have dominion over" him.

In the teachings of Solomon, listen to the exhortation given to those who love simplicity.

Prov. 1:22 “How long, you simple ones, will you love simplicity?
For scorners delight in their scorning,
And fools hate knowledge.

Solomon then points to the means by which the simple are delivered from simplicity. In the following Scripture we hear of wisdom, and that God speaks to the simple and the foolish. We hear that the content of what is spoken consists of the truth and not the lie. We hear that the words spoken are righteousness.

Prov. 8:1 Does not wisdom cry out,
And understanding lift up her voice?
2 She takes her stand on the top of the high hill,
Beside the way, where the paths meet.
3 She cries out by the gates, at the entry of the city,
At the entrance of the doors:
4 “To you, O men, I call,
And my voice is to the sons of men.
5 O you simple ones, understand prudence,
And you fools, be of an understanding heart.
6 Listen, for I will speak of excellent things,
And from the opening of my lips will come right things;
7 For my mouth will speak truth;
Wickedness is an abomination to my lips.
8 All the words of my mouth are with righteousness;
Nothing crooked or perverse is in them.
9 They are all plain to him who understands,
And right to those who find knowledge.


We all begin as a child without understanding. Our sins are forgiven, yet salvation grows as we walk the path lighted before us. Listen to the promise which Solomon speaks of.

Proverbs 9:
10 “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom,
And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

Who according to Scripture is the "Holy One?"

What does knowledge of the Holy One bring to those who hear?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/8/20 0:07Profile









 Re: Born Again By What Means

Jeff said

Quote:
I believe that the body remains corrupt according to Paul's teaching.

Isn't the word 'corrupt' in the this sense, simply a reference to the truth that our bodies are still subject to physical death?

It is not that our bodies are still corrupt in the sense of being bound to sin, or at least the first half of [b]Romans 8[/b] would be a lie, in particular, this verse:

11 But [u][b]if[/b] the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you[/u], he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also [u]quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that [b]dwelleth[/b] in you[/u].


Jeff, don't you think this means our 'mortal' bodies are being quickened [i][b]now?[/i][/b] As long as we walk in the Spirit?

In other words, salvation is not merely about 'understanding'.

 2006/8/20 8:27
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Sister asked:

Quote:
Jeff, don't you think this means our 'mortal' bodies are being quickened now? As long as we walk in the Spirit?



I am not schooled in the details of greek and tenses. Upon looking up the word "quickened" strongs placed this word in Romans 8:11 in the future tense.

According to Strongs definition of future tense given here:

Quote:
5776 Tense - Future

The future tense corresponds to the English future, and
indicates the contemplated or certain occurrence of an event
which has not yet occurred.




If one were to take Romans 8:11 in relation to the Scripture that surrounds it we find something different.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Is Paul teaching that the mortal body benefits from the indwelling Spirit?

Listen to other Scriptures which speak to this idea.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Rom. 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

Rom. 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Rather I believe Romans 8:11 speaks in the same way as 1 Peter 3:

1Pet. 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

And 1 Corinthians 15:

19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Do you see, according to what is promised in the future, that which Paul is teaching in Romans 8:11. This aspect also is spoken of in the book of Hebrews.

Heb. 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/8/21 8:59Profile





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