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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Born Again By What Means

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Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Eph 3:9 And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Quote: Jeff: "This is what Abraham experienced in his relationship with his God."

Where does it say that?

This is what Christ did on this earth as Jesus of Nazareth the man whom we know no more as a man but as God in us.

Prov. 2:1 My son, if you receive my words,
And treasure my commands within you,
2 So that you incline your ear to wisdom,
And apply your heart to understanding;
3 Yes, if you cry out for discernment,
And lift up your voice for understanding,
4 If you seek her as silver,
And search for her as for hidden treasures;
5 Then you will understand the fear of the LORD,
And find the knowledge of God.
6 For the LORD gives wisdom;
From His mouth come knowledge and understanding;
7 He stores up sound wisdom for the upright;
He is a shield to those who walk uprightly;
8 He guards the paths of justice,
And preserves the way of His saints.
9 Then you will understand righteousness and justice,
Equity and every good path.

There is only one Son that accomplished wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption. That was Christ Jesus at the Cross. Abraham did not have any Idea that Christ would be born of a Virgin, Offer Himself to Abraham's children, be crucified by them, die on a cross, be resurrected, ascended, and return in the Born Again Children of God. Abraham was called on this earth to be the father of all that believed that God is One God, and this was Abraham's great purpose. He also was the father of us all in this belief, that God is One God.

Abraham could not have Christ in him as we do. The Messiah to Abraham was the promise of him being the father Of many nations as in the 12 tribes of Israel.

Romans 4:3-6 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Ro 4:4
Verse 4. Now to him that worketh, etc. This passage is not to be understood as affirming that any actually have worked out their salvation by conformity to the law so as to be saved by their own merits; but it expresses a general truth in regard to works. On that plan, if a man were justified by his works, it would be a matter due to him.

Because of Abraham's believing God (faith) it was made unto him righteousness (reckoned). Because of our believing what God says about Jesus Christ, He is made our righteousness by the Father birthing Him in us.

Jeff, why don't you look for Christ in the New Testament, this is where we will find Him for the Body of Christ the Church and individuals thereof. Four fifths of the Bible is for the world and Israel and have good teaching about the Christ to come and good for reproof and morals and knowing God and who He is. Only one fifth of the bible is for the Church the Body of Christ. The Gospel of John and his epistles, all of Paul's Gospel including Hebrews, some of Peter, especially Peter's epistles.

The Old Testament is wonderful and the leading of God to the Christ that is in us with mysteries and shadows. The completion of Christ and His Work in us is what I have stated above. Especially the Mystery of Paul,

Mar 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all [these] things are done in parables:

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

1Cr 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Eph 3:9 And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Eph 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

Col 1:26 [Even] the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

In the Mystery of Christ in you the Hope of Glory: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/5/18 0:41Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
There is only one Son that accomplished wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption. That was Christ Jesus at the Cross. Abraham did not have any Idea that Christ would be born of a Virgin, Offer Himself to Abraham's children, be crucified by them, die on a cross, be resurrected, ascended, and return in the Born Again Children of God.





John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”


How might one understand this testimony of Jesus in light of your testimony Phillip?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/5/20 12:16Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

Jeff Wrote: Quote;

"John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”


How might one understand this testimony of Jesus in light of your testimony Phillip?"

In Christ
Jeff

Phillips Testimony.

"There is only one Son that accomplished wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption. That was Christ Jesus at the Cross. Abraham did not have any Idea that Christ would be born of a Virgin, Offer Himself to Abraham's children, be crucified by them, die on a cross, be resurrected, ascended, and return in the Born Again Children of God."



Yes Jeff, Jews that ask Jesus if He was better than their father Abraham, were of their father Abraham and We are of our Father God and His Son. Even Jesus took away father Abraham and said pray in this way: Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Not our father Abraham which art in the grave. John 8:53-54 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself? Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: Big difference Abraham is "dead", Christ is alive in us.

Abraham did rejoice to see the day of Christ, but he did not have Christ and the Father in him. Abraham will see the day of Christ when He rules form David's Throne on this earth.

We have the Father and Christ and the Holy Spirit in us. John 14:22-23 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

If Christ is in us and Christ and the Father are one then both are in us... John 17:11-12 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. John 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

And last, that not only are They in us but we are in Them and in each other because of Them. We are not in Abraham, he is dead, and so are his works if God had not proclaimed him righteous. Abraham was only righteous because God declared it, because he believed God and what he said to him about his son Isaac and that God is the only One and True God. That is why Abraham's Faith was reckoned to him as righteousness, but the True Righteousness had not come yet. He Jesus Christ has not come and He is our righteousness not reckoned because we believed but Fact by God's Promise and Proclamation, "Christ has been made in us our righteousness," Now revealed in the believer. Colossians 1:26-27 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: He is made our righteousness not reckoned. Reckoned is only how we are to see this truth as fact.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/5/21 18:18Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
Big difference Abraham is "dead", Christ is alive in us.



Matt. 22:32 “I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’ ? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.”

Abraham is not the focus, but Christ. God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Quote:
Abraham will see the day of Christ when He rules form David's Throne on this earth.



Matt. 8:11 And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.

Is there a difference in the kingdom of heaven spoken of here and what you believe?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/5/22 18:04Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

Absolutely not, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will be with Christ when He is on the Throne of David and they will be His spokesmen to the Nations of the earth. They will be hear for 1000 years. We will be also but we are ruling and reign from The Fathers House. We are the Heavenly beings seated with Christ in Heavenly places already and all of creation will rejoice at our revealing. Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
1Cr 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Th 2:19 For what [is] our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? [Are] not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/5/23 3:08Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

Jeff, what does born again mean to you? Do you believe that Jesus is the Son of God? Do you believe in the virgin birth? Do you believe the Jesus Christ is all God now and was all man?


_________________
Phillip

 2006/5/23 3:19Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Phillip asked:

Quote:
Jeff, what does born again mean to you? Do you believe that Jesus is the Son of God? Do you believe in the virgin birth? Do you believe the Jesus Christ is all God now and was all man?



First, being born again and the Life that follows I hope to continue to develop in this thread. Secondly, Yes Jesus was born of the virgin Mary. Thirdly, No, I still believe that Jesus is still man and still God. He still has a body that has the nail marks in His hands and feet. He still has the gash in His side that Thomas examined.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/5/23 17:45Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

Being Born Again of what or whom. What follows, what life or whose life?

Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

John's born again:
Born:
1080. gennao
Search for G1080 in KJVSL
gennaw gennao ghen-nah'-o

from a variation of 1085; to procreate (properly, of the father, but by extension of the mother); figuratively, to regenerate:--bear, beget, be born, bring forth, conceive, be delivered of, gender, make, spring.

Again:
509. anothen
Search for G509 in KJVSL
anwqen anothen an'-o-then

from 507; from above; by analogy, from the first; by implication, anew:--from above, again, from the beginning (very first), the top.

Peters: born again,
313. anagennao
Search for G313 in KJVSL
anagennaw anagennao an-ag-en-nah'-o

from 303 and 1080; to beget or (by extension) bear (again):--beget, (bear) X (again).

Born again of Whom.

Incorruptable:
862. aphthartos
Search for G862 in KJVSL
ajqartoV aphthartos af'-thar-tos

from 1 (as a negative particle) and a derivative of 5351; undecaying (in essence or continuance):--not (in-, un-)corruptible, immortal.

Seed:
4701. spora
Search for G4701 in KJVSL
spora spora spor-ah'

from 4687; a sowing, i.e. (by implication) parentage:--seed.

Who is the seed?

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin ; for his seed remaineth in him : and he cannot sin , because he is born of God .

his


_________________
Phillip

 2006/5/23 22:34Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

Being Born Again of what or whom. What follows, what life or whose life?

Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

John's born again:
Born:
1080. gennao
Search for G1080 in KJVSL
gennaw gennao ghen-nah'-o

from a variation of 1085; to procreate (properly, of the father, but by extension of the mother); figuratively, to regenerate:--bear, beget, be born, bring forth, conceive, be delivered of, gender, make, spring.

Again:
509. anothen
Search for G509 in KJVSL
anwqen anothen an'-o-then

from 507; from above; by analogy, from the first; by implication, anew:--from above, again, from the beginning (very first), the top.

Peters: born again,
313. anagennao
Search for G313 in KJVSL
anagennaw anagennao an-ag-en-nah'-o

from 303 and 1080; to beget or (by extension) bear (again):--beget, (bear) X (again).

Born again of Whom.

Incorruptable:
862. aphthartos
Search for G862 in KJVSL
ajqartoV aphthartos af'-thar-tos

from 1 (as a negative particle) and a derivative of 5351; undecaying (in essence or continuance):--not (in-, un-)corruptible, immortal.

Seed:
4701. spora
Search for G4701 in KJVSL
spora spora spor-ah'

from 4687; a sowing, i.e. (by implication) parentage:--seed.

Who is the seed?

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin ; for his seed remaineth in him : and he cannot sin , because he is born of God .

his


_________________
Phillip

 2006/5/23 23:01Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:


Being Born Again of what or whom. What follows, what life or whose life?

Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

John's born again:
Born:
1080. gennao
Search for G1080 in KJVSL
gennaw gennao ghen-nah'-o

from a variation of 1085; to procreate (properly, of the father, but by extension of the mother); figuratively, to regenerate:--bear, beget, be born, bring forth, conceive, be delivered of, gender, make, spring.

Again:
509. anothen
Search for G509 in KJVSL
anwqen anothen an'-o-then

from 507; from above; by analogy, from the first; by implication, anew:--from above, again, from the beginning (very first), the top.

Peters: born again,
313. anagennao
Search for G313 in KJVSL
anagennaw anagennao an-ag-en-nah'-o

from 303 and 1080; to beget or (by extension) bear (again):--beget, (bear) X (again).

Born again of Whom.

Incorruptable:
862. aphthartos
Search for G862 in KJVSL
ajqartoV aphthartos af'-thar-tos

from 1 (as a negative particle) and a derivative of 5351; undecaying (in essence or continuance):--not (in-, un-)corruptible, immortal.

Seed:
4701. spora
Search for G4701 in KJVSL
spora spora spor-ah'

from 4687; a sowing, i.e. (by implication) parentage:--seed.

Who is the seed?

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for (his) seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

his


_________________
Phillip

 2006/5/23 23:09Profile





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