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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Born Again By What Means

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rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Logic wrote:

Quote:
I say it is the Law working in them to convict them of sin and how much they need to be saved.



Did any of us know the depth of Scripture and what power the Scripture has to conform us into His death when we first believed?

We, in this generation have been taught, to try to point to a specific moment in life and we ourselves declare we are saved. Scripture teaches that God speaks His promises to us through the Holy Spirit.

In the parable of the sower what does it say of those whose hearts represent the good soil?

Luke 8
15 But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience.

Matthew 13:

23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”

Understanding that is brought about with patience bears fruit.

Have to go, out of time...

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/5/3 12:55Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

2Cor. 4:16 Therefore we do not lose heart. Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day.


Paul teaches that we are a new creation, yet he also teaches of the inward man being renewed day by day.

In the parable of the sower, the first three groups do not continue in this growth which Paul speaks of here in 2 Cor: 4:16. The last group continues on in the word that is planted in them. The outward man is perishing, that is the hopes he once had are dieing. The inward man is being renewed daily, that is God is changing the substance of what the inner man hopes for.

What is the result? The bearing of fruit.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/5/8 13:56Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

2Cor. 4:16 Therefore we do not lose heart. Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day.


What is the nature of the work that takes place in "the inward man" who "is being renewed day by day."

Why is this necessary in the life of the believer?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/5/9 15:26Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

2Cr 4:16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward [man] is renewed day by day.

Eph 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

Col 3:10 And have put on the new [man], which is renewed in knowledge after the image of Him that created Him: This new man is Christ in us, and yet individual in all that we are before God our Father as individual as each snow flake, son's of God.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2006/5/10 3:58Profile









 Re: Born Again By What Means

I'd like to add Romans 8:11 to this list, as the Lord has encouraged me with it so many times, and recently, I've mentioned it in several threads, because I feel it is not studied or understood. My understanding of it ties in with something Logic started to expound in a different thread, about the connection between the body and the soul - which (imo) is total.

This is not about being born again, but, it [i]is[/i] about the [i]living in the Spirit[/i] which should follow.

In Romans 8:10 - And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.

Then, Romans 8:11 - But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, [u]he that raised up Christ from the dead[/u]

[that is, the Father]

shall also [b]quicken[/b]

[bring to life or make alive]

[b]your [u]mortal bodies[/u] by his Spirit[/b] that [u]dwelleth[/u] [b]in you[/b].


Let me elaborate a little more. A long time ago, I attended a very small house-group, which was all a bunch of nurses and a few students, led by one lone slightly older brother, who was away from his home church, but, was born again, and sought God every week for something to share with us. He had been asking the Lord about 'walking in newness of life' (Rom 6:4) and also, about the operation of the gifts of the Spirit..... Amongst other things, he said this.... that when one uses a gift of the Spirit, one has to put the power of one's body behind it. eg, to speak in tongues, one has to use one's normal faculties of speech; just as, if one is helping someone to redecorate their house, one has to put the power of one's body behind (the intention / desire / purpose of the proposed exercise) the paintbrush, or, nothing will happen - and that could not count as 'walking in newness of life'. He was a man who would far rather be curled up with a book by Oswald Chambers, than out helping someone paint their house, but, he recognised that for the good of his own soul, he had to do things which disturbed his natural preferences. Years later, for the same reason, he took his wife and children to Africa for four years, to serve the Lord there.

My point is, that once we have received the Holy Spirit, having been baptised into Christ's death, we can experience a [u]real[/u] freedom from the old tugs and pulls towards sin, and as we [i]change[/i] how [u]we[/u] use our bodies and how we spend our time, by actually [i]doing[/i] new things, we are re-training our bodies away from sinful practices and, God is honouring us by allowing us to feel the outworking of [u]His life[/u] [i][b]in our flesh[/b][/i].

GW North put it this way - "the Holy Spirit comes to make the life of Jesus Christ real in your flesh".

Charles Wesley puts it this way - "God shall in your flesh appear and make an end of sin."

In other words, after new birth, [u]we can choose how will think and act[/u], until we have broken down strongholds [u]by being obedient to the Spirit[/u].

[u]We[/u] can [u]decide[/u] to go against how we are feeling and thinking, and [u]we can force the body to do what it should[/u], until the old mindset is broken. That [i]is[/i] hard work, but, sometimes, if one has chosen, [u]knowingly, to sin[/u] [i]in the past[/i], one has to keep choosing [b]not[/b] to sin, until "to sin" does not present itself as an option.

[b]The combination of the new mind and new action, is how the inner man is strengthened through obedience to the Spirit[/b].

From experience, I'd say the renewing of the mind is the [i]ideal[/i] starting place. While it can be separate from the activities of the body, up against the old mindset a body may [i]lose[/i] certain battles, [i]until[/i] the mind is fully convinced. That's why Paul mentions the renewing of the mind several times, and James (1:8) says a double-minded man is unstable in [u]all[/u] his ways.

Does this make sense?

 2006/5/10 7:05
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Sister Dorcas wrote:

Quote:
We can decide to go against how we are feeling and thinking, and we can force the body to do what it should, until the old mindset is broken. That is hard work, but, sometimes, if one has chosen, knowingly, to sin in the past, one has to keep choosing not to sin, until "to sin" does not present itself as an option.

The combination of the new mind and new action, is how the inner man is strengthened through obedience to the Spirit.




How does what you have said above reflect the Scripture below?

Prov. 2:1 My son, if you receive my words,
And treasure my commands within you,
2 So that you incline your ear to wisdom,
And apply your heart to understanding;
3 Yes, if you cry out for discernment,
And lift up your voice for understanding,
4 If you seek her as silver,
And search for her as for hidden treasures;
5 Then you will understand the fear of the LORD,
And find the knowledge of God.
6 For the LORD gives wisdom;
From His mouth come knowledge and understanding;
7 He stores up sound wisdom for the upright;
He is a shield to those who walk uprightly;
8 He guards the paths of justice,
And preserves the way of His saints.
9 Then you will understand righteousness and justice,
Equity and every good path.
10 When wisdom enters your heart,
And knowledge is pleasant to your soul,
11 Discretion will preserve you;
Understanding will keep you,

When wisdom enters your heart, and knowledge is pleasant to your soul, discretion will preserve you, understanding will keep you,

6 For the LORD gives wisdom;
From His mouth come knowledge and understanding;

In Christ
Jeff



_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/5/10 16:27Profile









 Re: Born Again By What Means


Jeff asked:
'How does what you have said above reflect the Scripture below?'

6 [b]For the LORD gives wisdom;
From His mouth come knowledge and understanding[/b];
7 [b]He stores up sound wisdom for the upright;
[u]He is a shield to those who walk uprightly[/u][/b];
8 [b]He guards the paths of justice,
And [u]preserves the way of His saints[/u][/b].

 2006/5/10 16:38
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Sister Dorcas wrote:

Quote:
He is a shield to those who walk uprightly;
8 He guards the paths of justice,
And preserves the way of His saints.



Yes!

It is He that has always preserved the way of His saints.
Wisdom and understanding enables the saints.

As you described the process in the earlier post, this Scripture also portrays what you yourself have come to understand...

Prov. 2:1 My son, if you receive my words,
And treasure my commands within you,
2 So that you incline your ear to wisdom,
And apply your heart to understanding;
3 Yes, if you cry out for discernment,
And lift up your voice for understanding,

This instruction given to us by Solomon points to the process of "renewing the mind daily." The outward man will also diminish as a result of this process. If the death of the outward man is the focus, we live according to the law given on Mount Sinai. If the death is the result of the process of "the renewing of the mind daily," then we live according to the law of liberty.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/5/11 15:54Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Gal 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

"The Yoke of bondage is the Law of sin and death.

Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond [nor] free: but Christ [is] all, and in all.

Christ is the Law of Liberty, free.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.


In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2006/5/12 2:02Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.



This Scripture comes to mind which speaks of knowing the Holy One...

Prov. 9:10 “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom,
And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

To know Christ through the law of the Spirit is to understand the liberty which frees us from the bondage of sin...

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/5/12 9:23Profile





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