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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Born Again By What Means

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Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

rookie:
&
Christinyou:
Amen & Amen!!!!

I love those verses 1John 3:9 & John 5:18

 2006/4/24 17:07Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Hi Jeff, I agree and just add more evidence.

You quoted: "but how to perform what is good I do not find."

We must not leave it there, Paul also said, "Romans 7:23-25 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."

"I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord" He will deliver us from this body of death and He giving the Holy Spirit for us what we need to overcome this performance and teach us even how to over come this not know how to perform that which is good. 1Cr 2:10 But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. God knows how to perform in us that which is pleasing to Him. 1 Corinthians 3:17-18 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. Our foolishness is to trust in the Lord Jesus Christ and The Holy Spirit He requested from the Father to teach us all things that are in Christ. 1 Corinthians 3:21-23 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours; Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours; And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

Let us not misuse the Holy Spirit. He is our Teacher and the Power of The Mind of Christ that is in us. But the Holy Spirit is not Christ. Christ is our Life and the Holy Spirit is the Mover and Shaker and Teacher of what Christ is and by His life we live. 1Cr 8:6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by Him. Taught by the Holy Spirit. Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. The Holy Spirit withhold nothing, even the power to overcome the how to, "how to perform what is good I do not find." In self no, but in Christ by the Holy Spirit, Yes. Jhn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. Even things we don't understand of even thought of, The Holy Spirit will reveal even this to us. Phl 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/4/25 4:43Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Phillip quoted:

Quote:
For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.



This idea of being blind and forgetting that one was purged from his old sins, also speaks to the what Paul is teaching to the Corinthians and James to the dispersed.

1Cor. 11:27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep.

James 5:13 Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing psalms. 14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. 16 Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much. 17 Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain; and it did not rain on the land for three years and six months. 18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth produced its fruit.

James 5:19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

In all three of these sections of Scripture we find that what I believe speaks to being spiritually sick.

The idea of being perfect to me the way I understand it, is not found in our corrupt bodies but in our understanding that comes from living in fellowship with the "Life."

Paul exhorts the Phillipians

Phil. 3:12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. 13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, 14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

Phil. 3:15 Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you. 16 Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us be of the same mind.

There is a sense of progression in terms of maturity. Paul is always stressing this point. Just like Peter whom you quoted above:

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.


What do you see concerning this idea of spiritual sickness?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/4/25 16:09Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

I just found another Scripture which speaks of the need of healing because of sickness...

Heb. 12:12 Therefore strengthen the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees, 13 and make straight paths for your feet, so that what is lame may not be dislocated, but rather be healed.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/4/25 17:03Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Our hearts and minds are separated by the two edged sword. That is the Heart of our Spirit is Christ and the heart of our soul is The Holy Spirit. We must see that a spirit is not the same as a soul. They are one in our body of flesh as Christ is one in our Spirit and the Holy Spirit is one in our soul. The Spirit of Christ is in us, that being who we are in spirit. The mind has The Holy Spirit dealing with our soul, that being what we were and who we are becoming. The flesh still has the old body pulls, but the Spirit is a new creature in Christ Jesus. The old body pulls that are left over from our old nature, was our nature when we were of our father the devil. The new Spirit pulls are showing us how to overcome the old man we used to be.

We are new creatures in Christ Jesus and becoming new creatures in and by His presence which is now our spirit joined to His Spirit which is our new life in Christ Jesus. Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me. This is who we are, not what we are by what we did. The Holy Spirit is now responsible to exchange what we were to what we are by Whom we are, In Christ is the Whom. In the Spirit is Whom we are becoming. Who we are is a Person, Jesus Christ is that Person. What does Born Again mean. New birth of the living water of Christ and by the Spirit of Christ.

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [Him] (Christ), that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Eph 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

What we were, to who we are becoming.

Ephesians 4:23-24 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

This who we are becoming in Christ Jesus by the power of The Holy Spirit which is in our soul mind and bringing us to the Perfection which is in our spirit in complete union with The Spirit of Christ that is now our spirit.

Colossians 3:10-12 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge (in soul mind)after the image of Him (Spirit) that created Him: Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

We are coming to this Mind which is in Christ Jesus and Powered by the Holy Spirit, our Teacher, the empowering One. 1 John 5:12-13 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. The Son is our life and the Father's Seed in us is the greatest act of Love the World will ever know. This is the Spirit of Christ In us. "that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." This is the work of the Holy Spirit. John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Colossians 3:14-18 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness. And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by Him.

Colossians 3:14 And above all these things put on Love, which is the bond of perfectness.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/4/25 21:43Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
We are coming to this Mind which is in Christ Jesus and Powered by the Holy Spirit, our Teacher, the empowering One. 1 John 5:12-13 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. The Son is our life and the Father's Seed in us is the greatest act of Love the World will ever know. This is the Spirit of Christ In us. "that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." This is the work of the Holy Spirit.





Gal. 5:16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Here Paul teaches about a battle between the Spirit and the flesh.


Gal. 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Here Paul exhorts us who live in the Spirit, to also walk...

Gal. 6:8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.

Here Paul speaks of a choice, one brings corruption to the one who sows to the flesh, the other one who sows to the Spirit recieves everlasting life.

This idea of corruption seems to also speak of the other Scripture which talks about being blind, lame, sick, and dead. When Paul writes that one has the choice to sow according to the flesh and that this act brings corruption, to me this person has life in the Spirit and does not obey the Spirit. The disobedience brings on spiritual sickness.

What do you think?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/4/26 15:30Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

"The disobedience brings on spiritual sickness."

What do you think?

I would rather say obedience brings spiritual life.

Is this not what we are to keep our minds on.

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Rom 15:6 That ye may with one mind [and] one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I guess it depends on whether your cup is half full or half empty. Be ye filled.

Rom 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things [is] death.

Phl 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things [are] honest, whatsoever things [are] just, whatsoever things [are] pure, whatsoever things [are] lovely, whatsoever things [are] of good report; if [there be] any virtue, and if [there be] any praise, think on these things.

I would rather keep my mind on these things and share them with the brethren and leave the things of the world to God.

1 Corinthians 13:4-13 Charity (Christ) suffereth long, and is kind; charity (Christ) envieth not; charity (Christ) vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, (Christ) then that which is in part shall be done away. (The in part has been done away with) When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, (In Christ)I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then (IN CHRIST) face to face: now I know in part; but then (IN CHRIST)shall I know even as also I am known. And now abideth faith, hope, charity, (Christ) these three; but the greatest of these is charity. (Christ)

Is Come.

1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Is He come in flesh, not has He come, or He did come in the Flesh, but is (present tense) He come in flesh. Our Temple is flesh and Christ is in this temple, but we are not in the flesh but in the Spirit.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 8:10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Christ has come in the Flesh of Men and quickened these bodies to House His Spirit that lives in us.

"All things work together for good to those that are called according to His purpose."

"He who's mind is kept on thee, thou shall keep him in perfect peace.

In Christ: Phillip



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Phillip

 2006/4/27 3:40Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
I would rather say obedience brings spiritual life.

Is this not what we are to keep our minds on.



The OT Scriptures are given to us as an example so that we may not fall as those who heard the gospel during Moses's time and died in the wilderness. Likewise those who Isaiah warned...

Is. 28:15 Because you have said, “We have made a covenant with death,
And with Sheol we are in agreement.
When the overflowing scourge passes through,
It will not come to us,
For we have made lies our refuge,
And under falsehood we have hidden ourselves.”

Likewise the Pharisees of Jesus' day thought the same...

Luke 3:8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, and do not begin to say to yourselves, “We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones.

Likewise James warns us of the same....

14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. 16 Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much. 17 Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain; and it did not rain on the land for three years and six months. 18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth produced its fruit.

James 5:19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

Going back to the parable of the seed, the first three groups who turned away from God first became spiritually sick did they not?

Others were healed and stand as a testimony of Christ's work in them...

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/4/27 10:42Profile
Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Christinyou wrote:

Quote:
"The disobedience brings on spiritual sickness."

What do you think?

I would rather say obedience brings spiritual life.

Is this not what we are to keep our minds on.


No, not obediance & dissobediance nor Flesh & spirit.

We can never please GOD dwelling on iether of them.
The only thing, or I should say The only person we should keep our minds on is Christ and Him alone, Jesus.

The problem comes when we keep our minds obediance & dissobediance or Flesh & spirit; we become cursed with the law.
We must not resolve anything but to come to Jesus and love God, that will keep us from sin.

If we resolve anything else we come under the law because any effort on our part is following the law, and there is a curse for that
[b]Rom 10:4-5[/b] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
[b]:5[/b] For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
[b]Gal 3:10[/b] For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

 2006/4/27 10:43Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Here is another Scripture which speaks of sickness...

Is. 1:3 The ox knows its owner
And the donkey its master’s crib;
But Israel does not know,
My people do not consider.”
4 Alas, sinful nation,
A people laden with iniquity,
A brood of evildoers,
Children who are corrupters!
They have forsaken the LORD,
They have provoked to anger
The Holy One of Israel,
They have turned away backward.
5 Why should you be stricken again?
You will revolt more and more.
The whole head is sick,
And the whole heart faints.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/4/27 12:41Profile





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