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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Born Again By What Means

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Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

"""You'd better look at that verse "very carefully" again.
1Corinth 1:30 But by Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification and redemption,

It says that Jesus is the wisdom by God to us."""

That is the difference in the NIV and KJV, or what ever version you are using, taking Christ out of us by birthing and putting Him to us by our own faith which will not work. Became to us, or made unto us. Became is of us, made unto us is of God. Also "by Him" takes it out of being Christ in us "Of Him".

30But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:KJV

This to, speaks for itself.

NIV: 2Peter 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

KJV: 2 Peter 1:2-4 Grace to you and peace be multiplied in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord; ((seeing that his divine power hath granted unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that called us by his own glory and virtue;)) whereby he hath granted unto us his precious and exceeding great promises; that through these ye may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in that world by lust.

"Partakers of His Devine Nature" is His own Glory in us by His Spirit. Not called to Glory

1 Corinthians 1:30-31 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who was made unto us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption: that, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

1 Corinthians 1:23-24 but we preach Christ crucified, unto Jews a stumblingblock, and unto Gentiles foolishness; but unto them that are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Where is our power? Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Colossians 1:27-28 to whom God was pleased to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: whom we proclaim, admonishing every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ;

This is our birthright from God. Without it we will never understand the thing of God.

Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

"by the Word of God", who is the Word of God?

John 1:1-5 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in the darkness; and the darkness apprehended it not.

Christ is the Word, Christ is the Incorruptable Seed in us, Christ is our wisdom, Christ is our righteousness, Christ is our sanctification, Christ is our redemption.

In Christ, our ALL: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/4/21 1:15Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Christinyou wrote:

Quote:
Christ is the Word, Christ is the Incorruptable Seed in us, Christ is our wisdom, Christ is our righteousness, Christ is our sanctification, Christ is our redemption.

In Christ, our ALL: Phillip



Amen, brother.
I would like to add that Christ is our God, Christ is our brother, Christ is our friend.

 2006/4/21 10:40Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
This is the bondage of our minds. We can never fall in to the bondage of Satan ever again. Our birthing is Christ in us by the Seed of our Father. At the instant of our birthing we got the whole bucket of Grace, Christ in us,



When you point out that, "This is the bondage of our minds," I would also inject the word "carnal." What does Scripture say of the carnal mind? We have a choice. Paul writes,

Rom. 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

We do have all things in Christ, yet Paul continues to warn those who live according to the carnal mind.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/4/21 11:23Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Quote:
Corinthians 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who was made unto us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption:




It is Christ that brings wisdom to man though the Holy Spirit. It is we who have access to this wisdom by faith.

1Cor. 1:4 I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given to you by Christ Jesus,

The substance of this grace is wisdom and it come to us by Christ Jesus. We are not Christ Jesus...we are sons of God being conformed into His image by the effective working of this grace for those who obey.

Paul writes that some of these Corinthians were sick. Is Paul speaking of a physical sickness or a spiritual sickness?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/4/21 12:01Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Br. Logic wrote:

Quote:
This is bondage to the Law, not our minds.



When we live according to our carnal mind we are then under the bondage of the Law...

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/4/21 12:06Profile
Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
"""So one has to stand fast in the liberty that makes us free. Otherwise we can fall back into the yoke of bondage."""



Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Put this verse in context, it is bondage to the Law and not our minds.
If you want to mention about our carnal mind, refer to Romans 8:6-8 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

However, the carnal mind accords to the flesh:
Galatians 5:19-20 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like......

On the other hand you did say
Quote:
This is the bondage of our minds

which seems to be diferent than what I just gave.
I think you meant false beliefes and lies that are accepted that keep souls in bondage which the Truth shall set free.
this is another subject all together.

 2006/4/21 16:19Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

What breaks this carnal mind? 2 Peter 1:2-11 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

"PARTAKERS OF DEVINE NATURE"

What are we to add to our Faith that MAKES US DEVINE PARTAKERS OF THIS GOD NATURE, it comes by Jesus Christ that is birthed in us? Adding first Virtue, what is virtue? Strongs says, it is most "excellent manly praise". Then where do we go? The knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ by the Teaching of the Holy Spirit. Then where? With this great knowledge of Christ in us the Hope of Glory we must become temperate, this knowledge puffs up and we must not show this puffiness in our presenting the Gospel of Christ in you The Hope of Glory. Then Where?
To Temperance add patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. Well we finally made it. All that Christ is that is in us and Whom we seek, The Seed of Him in Knowledge, and kindly dealing with each other and the world, Love, Love, Love.

Jeff you are right we are not the only begotten Son of God Jesus Christ. There is only One begotten Son of the Father, but He has been birthed in each one of Us and by our new nature, We have become son's of God, with all the attributes and possibilities of Christ at our grasp. Let us keep our minds on these things and the Fruit of Christ by the Holy Spirit will rule our hearts and minds in Christ Jesus. Then we are becoming: Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

This is a present statement, not a becoming statement, "Be ye Therefore Perfect", and even as our Father is? How can this be? By The Perfect presents of Jesus Christ in each one of us who have been born again by this Seed of the Father.

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Phl 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Jam 1:4 But let patience have [her] perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/4/21 16:21Profile
Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Christinyou wrote:

Quote:
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

This is a present statement, not a becoming statement, "Be ye Therefore Perfect", and even as our Father is? How can this be? By The Perfect presents of Jesus Christ in each one of us who have been born again by this Seed of the Father.

In Christ: Phillip


When Christ said this, He was instructing us in the sermon on the mount. Therefore this would be an obediance statement:
If it were just a "present statement" wouldnt' it say, "Ye are Perfect"?
It sais [b]Be[/b] ye Perfect, therefore, the question is How?
By doctrine, reproof, correction, instruction in righteousness: [b]2Timothy 3:16[/b]

We also need to be patient: James 1:4 But let patience have her perfect work, that [b]ye may be perfect[/b] and entire, wanting nothing.

And to bridel our toungue James 3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, [b]the same is a perfect man[/b], and able also to bridle the whole body.

 2006/4/21 16:51Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

Hello Logic,

Quote:

"When Christ said this, He was instructing us in the sermon on the mount. Therefore this would be an obediance statement:
If it were just a "present statement" wouldnt' it say, "Ye are Perfect"?
It sais Be ye Perfect, therefore, the question is How?
By doctrine, reproof, correction, instruction in righteousness: 2Timothy 3:16

First, The sermon on the Mt. Is the addition of perfection to the complete fulfillment Of the law. No man can do what Christ did by the Law. No man can even come close, and that is completed by Christs' statements when He said, "but I Say".

Where is the perfection then? It can only be in one place. That is by the Perfect Seed of Christ in us. Man on his own cannot keep Moses' Law or the Moral Law of God. There is only One that keeps the Perfect Law of God and that is Christ. Perfection is not attainable in the seed of man, only Perfection is attained by the Perfect, and Christ is the only Perfect. Then how are we to be Perfect as our Father in Heaven is Perfect? By the Perfect Seed planted in us at birth. Not like Nicodemus going back into his mothers womb, but by the Spirit of Christ the Seed of the Father and His Life Born Again in us. Now we can say we are Perfect in Spirit, becoming Perfect in soul (MIND) and will be Perfect on Resurrection morning. 2Cr 1:10 Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver [us];

Our Life is Christ: 1 John 5:11-20 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him. If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

This is the Perfect of Matthews statement by Christ.

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His Seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Who's Seed remaineth in him? Christ's Seed remains in us.

John 5:18We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. And we know that the (((Son of God is come,))) and hath given us an understanding, that we may know Him that is true, and we are in Him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Where are we born again from and into? We are born again in Spirit by the Seed of God. Is God Spirit? Absolutely, By the Incorruptable Seed of A Spiritual Father by The Spiritual Seed of Jesus Christ, The Seed of God.

The Question is not how we do it, but in Who we are. By knowing who we are, we are perfect. Our mind is now the Mind of Christ in soul and we are renewing it in patience to perfection that is the Mind of Christ, which we now have.
We have the Mind of Christ and the Renewer, The Holy Spirit in us and the Father is there also.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

What are His Words? John 14:26-29 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

Is He Come? YES!!!!! John 17:20-26 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.
This is not logical but spiritual declaration of Jesus Christ Himself. "I IN THEM" Holy Spirit revelation.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/4/21 19:55Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brothe Logic wrote:

Quote:
which seems to be diferent than what I just gave.
I think you meant false beliefes and lies that are accepted that keep souls in bondage which the Truth shall set free.
this is another subject all together.



The manifestations that you quoted from Galatian are a result of something much more basic. We miss the mark, the righteousness of Christ, without hearing the Holy Spirit. The carnal mind can know that God's laws are wonderful yet without the Holy Spirit's guidance we will always miss the mark. Paul in Chapter 7 of Romans explains this and summarizes this whole chapter in this verse...

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.

In our carnal mind, we know that nothing good can come from us. In our carnal mind we strive to do what the word of God teaches us. Yet what does Paul pin point as his short commings?

"but how to perform what is good I do not find."

This is in essences the reason why we ourselves, in our own carnal mind, cannot perform what is considered righteous before God. It is only by the Holy Spirit's guidance, sharing God's mind with us, that we are told how to "perform what is good." This is the liberty that Christ speaks of. The Holy Spirit frees us from our carnal mind by giving us the guidance that comes from our Lord Jesus Christ.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/4/24 16:09Profile





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