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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Born Again By What Means

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rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

If one remembers the first three groups in the sower of the seed parable, we are given different aspects from which to learn or to be warned about the ways others have fallen away from the truth. All who come to the Lord as He has sown His word in our hearts will come to see these warning signs in our own lives.

False doctrine, sin, and the love of this world impacts all of our lives. It is the work of the Scripture, by the Holy Spirit that points out, or warns us of those things which seperate us from our walk with our Shepherd.

This relationship between Scripture and our hearts and minds, is the source from which living water flows. It is the bread of life. This living water brings repentance from dead works. This living water and bread brings strength to those who drink and eat...

56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

John 6:59 These things He said in the synagogue as He taught in Capernaum.

John 6:60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a hard saying; who can understand it?”

John 6:61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.


Again....63 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life."

What is the purpose of communion?

In Christ
Jeff



_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/3/27 12:50Profile









 Re: Born Again By What Means

Hi Jeff,

This chapter just happens to be what I read today, and the verses you quote really had hit me.

Quote:
What is the purpose of communion?

It is not only that we should be fed by the living Word (His flesh) but that we should [i][b]never die[/b][/i].

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and [b]him that cometh to me [u]I will in no wise cast out[/u][/b].

38 [b]For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, [u]but the will of him that sent me[/u][/b].

(In v 38 we see that Jesus, the Seed, the Word, the Earth in which we die, allowed nothing to prevent Him from obeying His Father - no stony heart, no cares of this world, no deceitfulness of riches, no short term hope. He, for the [b]joy[/b] that was set before Him, endured the cross [b]despising the shame[/b] (Heb 12:2))

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, [b]but should [u]raise it up again[/u] at the last day[/b].

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which [u][b]seeth the Son[/u], and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: [u]and I will raise him up[/u] at the last day[/b].

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: [b]and [u]I will raise him up[/u] at the last day[/b].

54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; [b]and [u]I will raise him up[/u] at the last day[/b].

58 [b]This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. [u]He who eats this bread [i]will live forever[/i][/u].[/b]

AMEN!

 2006/3/27 13:36
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Sis wrote:

Quote:
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.



Amen...

What does Paul teach the Corinthians who have been given all the spiritual gifts in Christ?

1 Corinthians 11:

“Take, eat; this is My body which is broken for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”

1Cor. 11:26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death till He comes.

1Cor. 11:27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.

There is much to see in this ordinance that Christ has given to us.

In Christ
jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/3/27 13:47Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

All of these are we in Christ Jesus. These are the perfect Law that Christ fulfilled in Himself and by He that is in us we are becoming these. We cannot use these to take the temperature of our salvation in and of ourselves, then we put ourselves back under condemnation. Example:


3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

If I am not poor in spirit the kingdom of heaven is not mine.

4 Blessed are those who mourn,
For they shall be comforted.

If I don't mourn, I won't be comforted.

5 Blessed are the meek,
For they shall inherit the earth.

If I am not meek, I won't inherit the earth.

ETC, ETC.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
For they shall be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
For they shall obtain mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
For they shall see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
For they shall be called sons of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 “Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

These principles are Christ and by Him we accomplish all of them. I rejoice and am exceedingly glad that in Christ we have great reward, and by His strength and His Cross we are saved and becoming His sermon on the Mt. To the world, Not by my power but by His might.

Eph 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

In Christ, by His glory, by His strength and His might, by His Spirit that is in me: Phillip



_________________
Phillip

 2006/3/27 14:45Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
These principles are Christ and by Him we accomplish all of them. I rejoice and am exceedingly glad that in Christ we have great reward, and by His strength and His Cross we are saved and becoming His sermon on the Mt. To the world, Not by my power but by His might.



There is no condemnation for those who are abiding in Christ. Yes, it is Christ who will bring you to understand what it means to be poor in spirit. Yes, it is Christ who will lead you to mourn. Yes it is Christ who will teach you what if means to be meek. Yes it is Christ who will lead you to thrirst after His righteousness.

For those who see this path, for those who walk this path, they understand that there is no condemnation. Instead of condemnation they are filled with blessedness.

Is this your understanding Brother Phillip?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/3/27 14:57Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Wesley wrote in his sermon, The repentance of Believer's

III. 1. From what has been said we may easily learn the mischievousness of that opinion, — that we are wholly sanctified when we are justified; that our hearts are then cleansed from all sin. It is true, we are then delivered, as was observed before, from the dominion of outward sin; and, at the same time, the power of inward sin is so broken, that we need no longer follow, or be led by it: but it is by no means true, that inward sin is then totally destroyed; that the root of pride, self-will, anger, love of the world, is then taken out of the heart; or that the carnal mind, and the heart bent to backsliding, are entirely extirpated. And to suppose the contrary is not, as some may think, an innocent harmless mistake. No: it does immense harm: it entirely blocks up the way to any farther change; for it is manifest, “they that are whole not need a physician, but they that are sick.” If, therefore, we think we are quite made whole already, there is no room to seek any further healing. On this supposition it is absurd to expect a farther deliverance from sin, whether gradual or instantaneous.

(thought to be continued)


He claims that this teaching is not merely a harmless mistake but has great enormity of consequence to those who believe in this manner..

He states....No: it does immense harm: it entirely blocks up the way to any farther change; for it is manifest, “they that are whole not need a physician, but they that are sick.”

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/3/27 17:08Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Is this your understanding Brother Phillip?

In Christ
Jeff

AS far as the Holy Spirit has brought me in this miracle of Christ in me and still seeking to know Him. Yes.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/3/27 17:35Profile
Christinyou
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Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Wesley also wrote in the same sermon: "That He would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hands of our enemies should serve Him without fear, in holiness and righteousness before Him, all the days of our life” (Luke 1:74-75)

3. You have therefore good reason to believe, he is not only able, but willing to do this; to cleanse you from all your filthiness of flesh and spirit; to “save you from all your uncleannesses.” This is the thing which you now long for; this is the faith which you now particularly need, namely, that the Great Physician, the Lover of my soul, is willing to make me clean. But is he willing to do this to-morrow, or to-day? Let him answer for himself: “To-day, if ye will hear” My “voice, harden not your hearts.” If you put it off till to-morrow, you harden your hearts; you refuse to hear his voice. Believe, therefore, that he is willing to save you to-day. He is willing to save you now. “Behold, now is the accepted time.” He now saith, “Be thou clean!” Only believe, and you also will immediately find, “all things are possible to him that believeth.”

4. Continue to believe in him that loved thee, and gave himself for thee; that bore all thy sins in his own body on the tree; and he saveth thee from all condemnation, by his blood continually applied. Thus it is that we continue in a justified state. And when we go “from faith to faith, when we have faith to be cleansed from indwelling sin, to be saved from all our uncleannesses, we are likewise saved from all that guilt, that desert of punishment, which we felt before. So that then we may say, not only,
Every moment, Lord, I want The merit of thy death
but, likewise, in the full assurance of faith,
Every moment, Lord, I have The merit of thy death! For, by that faith in his life, death, and intercession for us, renewed from moment to moment, we are every whit clean, and there is not only now no condemnation for us, but no such desert of punishment as was before, the Lord cleansing both our hearts and lives."


There is such a miracle that man cannot see with eyes that don't see or hear with ears that don't hear. Paul is not just saying that we have the Spirit of Christ in us, which is true, but he is saying in the first person, we have a complete person, Jesus Christ in us, in jars of clay with such a transition he calls us new creatures. Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. From I, I, I, to Christ living in me, to My life by His Faith in the my flesh, The Son of God. Do we really understand what this is saying? This is a declaration of a complete new life in Christ Jesus. Oh, That God would grant the Holy Spirit to reveal this to the body of Christ the Church. God has made us new people that no other people at any time has seen or known. Not Adam, Abraham, David, or any other person in the scriptures. But a new person, man, how ever you want to look at it, but we are a new Creature in Christ Jesus.

1Cr 11:25 After the same manner also [he took] the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink [it], in remembrance of me.

2Cr 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in Himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;

Of Twain, Jesus Christ and the Believer, One new man.

Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Put On: Search for G1746 in KJVSL
enduow enduo en-doo'-o

from 1722 and 1416 (in the sense of sinking into a garment); to invest with clothing (literally or figuratively):--array, clothe (with), endue, have (put) on

Col 3:10 And have put on the new [man], which is renewed in knowledge after the image of Him that created Him:

Father Help us to see Him, not only in ourselves but in each other, that we might love one another as He loves us, NOW.

In Christ a new Creature: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2006/3/27 18:12Profile









 Re: Born Again By What Means

Wesley said:

Quote:
[b]Every moment, Lord, I want[/b] the merit of thy death [b]but, likewise, in the full assurance of faith, every moment, Lord, [u]I have[/u] the merit of thy death![/b]

For, by that faith in his life, death, and intercession for us, renewed from moment to moment, we are every whit clean, and [b]there is not only now no condemnation for us, but no such [u]desert of punishment[/u] as was before, the Lord cleansing both our hearts and lives[/b].

Brothers, this is amazing....! Only this morning I was thinking about the wilderness, and how after the cleansing by His blood (in the 'Red Sea' - our redemption)it represents a period when an outworking of His death must be ministered to our 'flesh' (inner) life. It is wonderful how God has spread out so many truths for us in the account of that journey, culminating in an exposition of the baptism of the Holy Spirit (the baptism into His - and our - death) - the crossing of the flooded river Jordan; by which we receive power to vanquish external enemies, conquering and possessing a 'new' land, which is ours according to His promises only, until we take it in real time for ourselves.

'desert of punishment' is a harsh phrase, but God really did kill or allow to die in the wilderness the [i]entire generation[/i] which had left Egypt. We cannot hold on to one tiny spot or wrinkle from our past lives, if we are to have a fully operational (spiritual) [u]life[/u] after new birth.

 2006/3/28 5:15
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Phillip I understand what you say here in quoting from the same sermon...but what is important here is to continue to lay the groundwork for those that have not yet come to understand the mystery that Paul speaks of here and strives as you strive to bring to words of what importance it is to all who find God...

Colosian 2:
1 For I want you to know what a great conflict I have for you and those in Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh, 2 that their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, and attaining to all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the knowledge of the mystery of God, both of the Father and of Christ, 3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

Everyone must find this treasure for themselves...

Here is the continuation of the thought that Wesley brings forth..

2. On the contrary, a deep conviction that we are not yet whole; that our hearts are not fully purified; that there is yet in us a “carnal mind,” which is still in its nature “enmity against God;” that a whole body of sin remains in our heart, weakened indeed, but not destroyed; shows, beyond all possibility of doubt, the absolute necessity of a farther change. We allow, that at the very moment of justification, we are born again : In that instant we experience that inward change from “darkness into marvellous light;” from the image of the brute and the devil, into the image of God; from the earthly, sensual, devilish mind, to the mind which was in Christ Jesus. But are we then entirely changed? Are we wholly transformed into the image of him that created us? Far from it: we still retain a depth of sin; and it is the consciousness of this which constrains us to groan, for a full deliverance, to him that is mighty to save. Hence it is, that those believers who are not convinced of the deep corruption of their hearts, or but slightly, and, as it were, notionally convinced, have little concern about entire sanctification . They may possibly hold the opinion, that such a thing is to be, either at death, or some time they know not when, before it. But they have no great uneasiness for the want of it, and no great hunger or thirst after it. They cannot, until they know themselves better, until they repent in the sense above described, until God unveils the inbred monster’s face, and shows them the real state of their souls. Then only, when they feel the burden, will they groan for deliverance from it. Then, and not till then, will they cry out, in the agony of their soul,

Break off the yoke of inbred sin, And fully set my spirit free! I cannot rest till pure within, Till I am wholly lost in Thee.


Let us continue on in our pursuit to bring forth in words what we ourselves have discovered...

God Bless

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/3/28 12:47Profile





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