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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Born Again By What Means

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rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Is. 28:9 “Whom will he teach knowledge?
And whom will he make to understand the message?
Those just weaned from milk?
Those just drawn from the breasts?

1 Corinthians 2:

16 For “who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ. 1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able;


Heb. 5:12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. 13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe.

These Scriptures point to a precept concerning those who are "babes in Christ." There is something that has not yet come to fruition. That is, the babe in Christ, knows very little of the things of the Spirit. Listen to John teach about maturity in Christ.

1 John 2:

12 I write to you, little children,
Because your sins are forgiven you for His name’s sake.
13 I write to you, fathers,
Because you have known Him who is from the beginning.
I write to you, young men,
Because you have overcome the wicked one.
I write to you, little children,
Because you have known the Father.
14 I have written to you, fathers,
Because you have known Him who is from the beginning.
I have written to you, young men,
Because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you,
And you have overcome the wicked one.


How does John differentiate between those who are babes, young men, and fathers in Christ?

The word of God abiding in the believer, is this not the promise of the New Covenant?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2005/11/7 18:09Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Is. 55:1 “Ho! Everyone who thirsts,
Come to the waters;
And you who have no money,
Come, buy and eat.
Yes, come, buy wine and milk
Without money and without price.
2 Why do you spend money for what is not bread,
And your wages for what does not satisfy?
Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good,
And let your soul delight itself in abundance.
3 Incline your ear, and come to Me.
Hear, and your soul shall live;
And I will make an everlasting covenant with you—
The sure mercies of David.

What is Isaiah speaking about here? What is it that satisfies and can't be bought with money? What everlasting covenant comes when we incline our ear to Him?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2005/11/7 18:15Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Heb. 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,

Througout Scripture the word of God satisfies those who hear. The writer of Hebrews testifies of the goodness of the word of God that is the heavenly gift. Listen to other Scriptures which speak of a man's appetite being satisfied.

Ezek. 3:3 And He said to me, “Son of man, feed your belly, and fill your stomach with this scroll that I give you.” So I ate, and it was in my mouth like honey in sweetness.

Psa. 119:103 How sweet are Your words to my taste,
Sweeter than honey to my mouth!

7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul;
The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple;
8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart;
The commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes;
9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring forever;
The judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
10 More to be desired are they than gold,
Yea, than much fine gold;
Sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
11 Moreover by them Your servant is warned,
And in keeping them there is great reward.
12 Who can understand his errors?
Cleanse me from secret faults.
13 Keep back Your servant also from presumptuous sins;
Let them not have dominion over me.
Then I shall be blameless,
And I shall be innocent of great transgression.
14 Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Your sight,
O LORD, my strength and my Redeemer.


Now search for how the following Scriptures also speak of God's provision for those who would hear.

Deut. 32:13 “He made him ride in the heights of the earth,
That he might eat the produce of the fields;
He made him draw honey from the rock,
And oil from the flinty rock;

Psa. 81:16 He would have fed them also with the finest of wheat;
And with honey from the rock I would have satisfied you.”


Who is the Rock from which the honey comes.

1Cor. 10:4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.


Have you tasted the heavenly gift?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2005/11/8 13:19Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul;
The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple;


What law does this speak of? Is it the Old covenant or the New covenant?

Again here is the description of the New Covenant.

Jeremiah 31:

33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, “Know the LORD,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Now what law does this Scripture speak of?

Psa. 40:1 I waited patiently for the LORD;
And He inclined to me,
And heard my cry.
2 He also brought me up out of a horrible pit,
Out of the miry clay,
And set my feet upon a rock,
And established my steps.
3 He has put a new song in my mouth—
Praise to our God;
Many will see it and fear,
And will trust in the LORD.
4 Blessed is that man who makes the LORD his trust,
And does not respect the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies.
5 Many, O LORD my God, are Your wonderful works
Which You have done;
And Your thoughts toward us
Cannot be recounted to You in order;
If I would declare and speak of them,
They are more than can be numbered.
6 Sacrifice and offering You did not desire;
My ears You have opened.
Burnt offering and sin offering You did not require.
7 Then I said, “Behold, I come;
In the scroll of the book it is written of me.
8 I delight to do Your will, O my God,
And Your law is within my heart.”
9 I have proclaimed the good news of righteousness
In the great assembly;
Indeed, I do not restrain my lips,
O LORD, You Yourself know.
10 I have not hidden Your righteousness within my heart;
I have declared Your faithfulness and Your salvation;
I have not concealed Your lovingkindness and Your truth
From the great assembly.
11 Do not withhold Your tender mercies from me, O LORD;
Let Your lovingkindness and Your truth continually preserve me.
12 For innumerable evils have surrounded me;
My iniquities have overtaken me, so that I am not able to look up;
They are more than the hairs of my head;
Therefore my heart fails me.
13 Be pleased, O LORD, to deliver me;
O LORD, make haste to help me!
14 Let them be ashamed and brought to mutual confusion
Who seek to destroy my life;
Let them be driven backward and brought to dishonor
Who wish me evil.
15 Let them be confounded because of their shame,
Who say to me, “Aha, aha!”
16 Let all those who seek You rejoice and be glad in You;
Let such as love Your salvation say continually,
“The LORD be magnified!”
17 But I am poor and needy;
Yet the LORD thinks upon me.
You are my help and my deliverer;
Do not delay, O my God.


Look again, what law is this? Yes it speaks of Jesus but also David.


6 Sacrifice and offering You did not desire;
My ears You have opened.
Burnt offering and sin offering You did not require.
7 Then I said, “Behold, I come;
In the scroll of the book it is written of me.
8 I delight to do Your will, O my God,
And Your law is within my heart.”

Who only can cause a man to have a "new song?"

3 He has put a new song in my mouth—
Praise to our God;
Many will see it and fear,
And will trust in the LORD.

A carnal man knows nothing of the new song. He knows nothing of the sacrifice that God requires.

Do you taste the sweetness of His word?
In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2005/11/9 12:46Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Again, why does Paul continue to pray and exhort those are babes in Christ? Why does Paul pray for the believers to grow in wisdom and understanding?

Eph. 4:11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,

14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.


Listen to for what God's desire is for those who call on the name of Jesus.

13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;

What does perfection or more correctly maturity do for a believer in Christ?

Paul identifies a stumbling block for those who are babes in Christ.

14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,

Now listen to Luke 8:

Luke 8:11 “Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

What Paul warns of is of the same consequence that Jesus identifies in the above Scripture. Jesus says that the devil comes and takes away the [b]word out of their hearts[/b].

Empty doctrines of men steal the means by which the SEED can become fruitful. The trickery of men who seem to be godly are in fact the shepherds who steal and rob. These are men who claim the name of Jesus, yet their doctrine honors men who remain as the sons of disobedience.

What might some of these winds of empty doctrine look like?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2005/11/11 12:02Profile
Graftedbranc
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Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re: Born Again By What Means

The Lord Himself told us what He meant by "being born again'. He gave us the illustration of Moses in the wilderness who, when the Isrealites sinned and were being bit by serpents and dying, lifted up the bronze serpent and those who looked upon it lived.

To be born agian is to believe into the Lord Jesus Christ who was lifted up on the Cross as the brazen Serpant who was judged for our sins.

To be born again is on the basis of Christ's redemption, to be born of the Spirit to become children of God in Life and Nature. It is to be forgiven and regenerated with God's Life in Chirst to be children of God.

To as many as recieved HIm. to them He gave authority to become the children of God who were.. born of God.

Our human spirit through the fall is dead. It is dead to God and for all practical purposes disfunctional. It has no life and we are separated from the Life of God and we live by our fallen soul life.

But through the redemption in Christ, He forgives us and regenerates us with His resurrection Life making us children of God. That is we recieve His very Life and Nature and become members of the "species of God".

To be born of God is to be a child of God with His indweling LIfe and Nature. We are organically united with the risen Christ and share His Eternal Life and we are indeed children of God possesing His LIfe and His Nature. IN the end we shall be like Christ Himself fully redeemed, transformed and transfigured into His image and likeness and permeated with His Life and Nature to be His many brothers.

This is what it means to be born agian.

Graftedbranch

 2005/11/11 14:41Profile
Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re: The New Birth and the Processes of Christ

To understand the New Birth, we have to understand the process Christ underwent. In incarnation, Christ came as the Only begotton Son of God from all eternity. He is the Eternal Word made flesh.

He was not only the Son of God but He was also the Son of Man. IN His divine Nature, He was the Only Begotton Son of God, but in His humanity he was the Son of Man and part of the old creation as the Seed of David through Mary.

ON the cross His humanity which was part of the Old creation (the last Adam) was put to death. But in resurrection His humanity was glorified. Christ who "came out of the seed of David according to the flesh, was designated the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of Holiness out of the resurrection of the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 1:3,4 RcV)

Footnote RcV

IN resurrection His humanity was brought into the divine sonship and he become not only the "only begotton Son of God" but also the First Born Son of God in resurrection. First born implies many to follow.

AS the grain of wheat which was alone, He was sown into the ground to die, but in resurrection He brings forth much fruit and He is now reproduced in all His redeemed believers who become the many sons of God with His Life and Nature.

IN Resurrection the humanity of Christ was glorified and permeated with the Divine Life bringing Man into the Divine Sonship. Now, as partakers of Christ we too enter into the Divine Sonship sharing His Eternal, Divine Life.

To be born again or born of God today means to be begotton of God to recieve His Divine Life and to enter into His Divine Sonship sharing His life and ultimately His glory.

IN incarnation Christ was the Only begotton Son of God made flesh. IN Resurrection Christ is the Firstborn among many brothers who share in His Divine Life and are born of God.

When Christ was resurrected, He said to Mary, Go to My brothers and tell them I ascend to My Father and their Father, My God and their God. IN resurrection Christ has brought us into the Divine Sonship and HIs Father is now our Father, His God is now our God.

This sonship is not merely a legal standing or "adoption" as many hold but rather is is an organic relationship. God is genuinly our Father and through Christ we are His genuine children with His indwelling LIfe and Nature. Peter tells us that we have been made partakers of the Divine Nature.

Ultimately this finds its furition in the New Jeruselem which is the Wife of the Lamb, the City of God which is the consumation of God's redeemed, regenerated, transformed, conformed, and transfigured saints who are permeated with the gold of the Divine Nature and are the perfected bride of Christ.

Just as Eve was taken out of Adam and fashioned to be Adams Help Meet from His very life and nature. So too the church as the Bride of Christ is fully constituted with His Divine Life and Nature to be His perfected Bride, the Wife of the Lamb and the dwelling place of God for all eternity.

This is what it means to be born again

GraftedBranch

Quote:
"Before His incarnation Christ, the Divine One, already was the Son of God. By incarnation He put on an element, the human flesh, which had nothing to do with divinity. That part of HIm needed to be sanctified and uplifted by passing though death and resurrection"

 2005/11/11 15:03Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re: Born Again By What Means


Graftedbranch; Amen

And who is the Word of God? We are born again by the Christ that has been birthed in us. Words don't live but Christ does. He is the Living Word, the born again don't need the words written in our heart, for Christ is now our spiritual heart, born again by the Word of God. Christ is the Word and the Author thereof, which makes the Word Living.

What is born again of Spirit? Christ Himself in us the Hope of Glory. What is born again of soul? The Holy Spirit Teacher to teach us the Christ that has been born again in us by the Father. What is born again of flesh? Not yet, but quickened to be able to contain the Spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit Teacher and the Father who has come with Christ to live in us in Spirit. Christ Spirit birthed in us, New Creature. The Holy Spirit birthed in us, by Christ, Teaching The New Creature who this Christ is and will teach us Christ forever. Spirit, Perfect in Christ, Soul mind becoming perfect in Christ by the Teaching of the Holy Spirit and body will be perfect on resurrection morning when we receive the resurrected corn of wheat that can enter the Kingdom of the Father and rule with Christ in the Fathers House.

The word does not need to be written in the Hearts of born again birthed of the Father's son's and legal children of God with His Nature birthed in us.

There is a difference in a created people the son's of Israel and the Birthed Children of the Father. Created son's of Israel need the word written in their hearts because Christ has not been born again in them. They would not be son's of Israel if Christ is in them, they would be son's of the Father, Christ ones, for there is neither Jew or Gentile in Christ. The Born Again are new creation race of birthed children not created but Born From Above with Father God's DNA which is Christ In you The Hope of Glory.

Galatians 2:16-20 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Colossians 1:25-29 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2005/11/12 0:00Profile









 Re: Born Again By What Means


Hi Phillip,

I don't think you can justify this thought

Quote:
The word does not need to be written in the Hearts of born again birthed of the Father's son's and legal children of God with His Nature birthed in us.

from scripture.

Here's why... Jesus says we [i]reason[/i] in our hearts.

Mark 2:8
And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, [u]Why [b]reason[/b] ye these things [b]in your hearts[/u]?[/b]

And we all know how we used to reason before we were born again - according to the mind of the flesh.

Ephesians 2:1 - 3
And you, who were dead in trespasses and sins; wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, [b]fulfilling the desires of[/b] the flesh and of [u][b]the mind[/b]; and were [b]by nature[/b][/u] the children of wrath, even as others.

The next verse, which begins 'But God..' tells us quite clearly that we most certainly [b]do[/b] need something done to [i]convert[/i] the way our mind works with our heart.

Here is another verse which connects [u]the heart[/u] to [i][b]desire[/b][/i].

Colossians 3:1 - 3
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. [b]Set[/b] your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. [u]For ye are [b]dead[/b][/u], and [u]your [b]life[/b][/u] is hid [u]with Christ [b]in God[/b][/u].

We can take [i]nothing[/i] of the flesh into God.

Lastly, these are connected in the great New Covenant promise, which we receive into our very beings through the Spirit, at new birth.

Remembering Romans 3
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 [b]for all have sinned[/b], and come short of the glory of God;

Hebrews 8
6 But now hath he [Christ] obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first [covenant] had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 [b]For finding fault with [u]them[/u][/b], he saith,

Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; [b]I will put my laws into their mind, and [u]write them in their hearts[/u][/b]: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.


Phillip, I believe we are indeed changed in our hearts and minds and bodies, by the [i]practising[/i] of the righteousness of Christ, through the operation of the faith of Christ [u]in us[/u], by the power of the Holy Spirit [u]in us[/u].

 2005/11/12 7:05
Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Quote:
Words don't live but Christ does.



Christ as the Living Word is the eternal expression and revelation of the Father. Hebrews 1:3 tells us "He is the effulgence of the Father's glory, the impress of His Substance.

The Word is God revealed and God declared. Christ is the Eternal Living revelation and declaration of God. The Bible is the written Word of God. The Bible is God' breathed. It is the Holy Pnuma breathed forth in words written to convey the Living Word who is Christ.

It is through the Word of Christ that we are born again, The Words of Christ convey the Living Christ into us as the Spirit.

The spirit touched,
Thy Word recieved,
Thy Life is thus
In Me conceived.

GraftedBranch

 2005/11/12 8:58Profile





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