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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Born Again By What Means

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Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
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 Re:

"You have destroyed all those who desert You for harlotry."

Yes but you cannot destroy those in Christ, for:
Romans 8:35-39 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, (not things past) Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Nothing, Nothing, Nothing can separate us form the Love of God and Who is that? Jesus Christ Our Lord. Amen and Amen.

Why must the Old Testament way of salvation be commingled with the New Testament way. You cannot commingle Law and Grace or Works and Faith. Either the Faith of Christ in us will show the world our Faith or our works are not based in Christ. Our works are what the world is so tired of seeing and it being called Christianity. Let it be the Faith and Works of Christ in us that the World sees'. Then the greater works that Christ spoke of will come forth.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/2/10 15:41Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, (not things past) Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.



Yes, God persuaded Paul of this. And yes, God has persuaded you brother. My point is focusing on those according to Scripture, in the sower of the seed, who never come to be persuaded of this truth. All groups received the word of God sown in their hearts, yet there are those where Satan stoled the word from their hearts. There were those who submitted to temptation and fell away. There were those whose life was choke out of them by their pursuit of the pleasures of this world.

They themselves had not experienced being "persuaded." No man can persuade another of this truth, only the "increase that comes from God."

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/2/10 16:06Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

I am persuaded that you are right. You also have a heart for those that are suffering under the old taskmaster and their old husband whom they have turned back to, even though he is defeated, just like Israel wanted to return to Egypt. Romans 7:2-3 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

The woman is the believer, the dead husband is Satan, and the new Husband is Christ, "another Man." May we be instruments of Christ, God willing, that He that is in us might reach all those that have been given Him.

This also is Satan' greatest lie for the born again. When the Church says repent and be baptized come to Church and get plugged into the ministry of the Church and study your bible and go to bible study and prayer services and you will grow in your salvation and become of benefit to God. Then Satan says, you see you can't do it, you are worthless and no matter what you do you will never be good enough to get to Heaven. But if the Church would keep the old testament separate from the new testament and preach the true gospel of Jesus Christ that Paul has given us, they could say do you believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God. Now that you believe, Christ has been born again in you and you now have all the righteousness you will ever have. You now have a new Teacher, the Holy Spirit and He will guide you into all truth. Now we start to renew your mind to the Mind of Christ that is birthed in you, be patient because God will not give you more than you can handle. But you need to be assured that you are saved to the utmost and nothing will ever take it away from you and most of all you are now a son of the most high God and a brother or sister to Jesus Christ Himself and all that your Father has is at your disposal as He knows you will be able to handle it you will receive it. Now you must know that I see Jesus in you because I see Jesus in me, let us go in Christ and tell all those that God sends to us who This Christ in us is.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/2/10 18:43Profile
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 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
their old husband whom they have turned back to, even though he is defeated, just like Israel wanted to return to Egypt. Romans 7:2-3 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.



I have not come across many that understand this Scripture as you do brother. Amen.



Quote:
The woman is the believer, the dead husband is Satan, and the new Husband is Christ, "another Man." May we be instruments of Christ, God willing, that He that is in us might reach all those that have been given Him.



I have always looked at the "dead husband" as being the law. The law is given as a tutor leading to Christ. The taskmaster is identified by Paul

Gal 3:

12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”

Gal. 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

The law condemns and cannot make anyone righteous, yet the law keeps one under guard until faith comes.



Quote:
Then Satan says, you see you can't do it, you are worthless and no matter what you do you will never be good enough to get to Heaven.



I believe the law is responsible for this.

Rom. 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

God Bless

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/2/13 11:41Profile
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Joined: 2003/6/3
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 Re:

Psalm 91:

Psa. 91:1 He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High
Shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
2 I will say of the LORD, “He is my refuge and my fortress;
My God, in Him I will trust.”


David prays in Psalm 51,

6 "Behold, You desire truth in the inward parts, and in the hidden parts You will make me to know wisdom."

Psalm 91 speaks of a "secret place."

Psalm 51 speaks of "truth in the inward parts, and the hdden parts..."

Is this secret place this inward parts, this hidden parts a description of the heart of man?

The sower of the seed parable is centered on the heart of man. By what means does God enable man to have a heart for Him? We know that Paul teaches that it is impossible for man to accomplish this. Romans 3

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/2/15 17:39Profile
Christinyou
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 Re:

Psalms 51:5-7 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom. Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

Already in iniquity and entering life into this cursed ground unable to change ones own heart, mind, or even the works to be able to approach or please God. God Himself desires truth in our inward parts, which we cannot accomplish on our own. Begging cleansing by hyssop which is an earthly cleansing agent is all we can ask for, because it is the only way we can think of as to be clean, or by water or by anything we can clean ourselves to be presentable to God on our own. Even Christ would not accept the hyssop which is also a pain reliever until all things were accomplished, so He would not give any thought or appearance of depending on any earthly agent to decrease His suffering, for the Father first then us.

God Himself must do the washing, not the outward but the inward and the secret place that we cannot reach by our works. Only being born again of the Water and Spirit of Christ will the inward parts be exchanged, not just changed but exchanged for a new Heart and a New life and that is again Christ in us the Hope of Glory. By birth we can now have the inward part the same as Christ, the New Mind of God Himself in Christ Jesus, and The Holy Spirit doing the job of Teacher that we are able to renew our minds to the Mind of Christ. The old man with Satan as my father out, exchanged for the assurance of a new mind with the New Man birthed, Christ in and God as my Father.
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

1 Corinthians 1:10-13 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

Were we baptized into Abraham or Moses or Israel or anyone else except Jesus Christ? Absolutely Not. The next question, Was Moses or Abraham or any person Baptized into Christ or the Holy Spirit before Pentecost? The only other question we can bring forth is was The Spirit of Christ Himself born again in any believer before Pentecost and the promise of Christ's answered prayer of the Father sending the Comforter Teacher, The Holy Spirit. The only answer can be possibly a very few apostles as Peter, Whom Christ said only The Father in Heaven had revealed to Peter that Jesus Christ was the Son of God the Messiah, but still they did not know the experience of New Birth and needed the Holy Spirit to reveal it to them, and they did not even know this until It was revealed to Paul and Paul only whom God chose from his mothers womb to reveal Christ In Him that he might reveal it to the world, including Peter. Galatians 1:15-16 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: And Peter agreeing, finally: 1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Acknowledging the wisdom of Paul.
In the last words we hear from Peter are in agreement with Paul's Gospel:

2 Peter 3:15-18 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen. Christ in a man.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/2/16 1:35Profile
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 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
Begging cleansing by hyssop which is an earthly cleansing agent is all we can ask for, because it is the only way we can think of as to be clean, or by water or by anything we can clean ourselves to be presentable to God on our own.



Jesus counsels the church of the Laodiceans:

Rev. 3:18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see.

Both David and Jesus speak of the condition of man who lives in corruption. We in the flesh, yet born again, yet with Christ in us, still carry with us "the shame of your nakedness.." while still in this body. Jesus exhorts the members of the church of Laodicea to buy from Him gold refined by the fire, this gold will provide a white garment that covers the shame of man's nakedness.

Whether it is hysop or gold, one thing is clear. The life we receive from the Lord does not change the nature of our flesh. It remains corrupt while we still live in this body. We know that hysop, gold, or white garments are used to illustrate the intent of the grace that is dispensed to us. God's intent is to lead us from faith to faith, seperating us from the desires of this world. The intent of God's grace is to free us from the bondage of our carnal mind.

David knows that sacrificing the blood of bulls cannot create in him a new heart. He prays for God to do so. This new heart, what will it's desires be? That is God's work, a work that is unreachable for man.

Hysop covers the smell of death. Gold represents the desires that can only be created by God in man for Him.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/2/16 15:25Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
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 Re:

Quote: Jeff wrote; which I completely don't agree with by degrading the Cross of Christ.

"Whether it is hysop or gold, one thing is clear. The life we receive from the Lord does not change the nature of our flesh. It remains corrupt while we still live in this body. We know that hysop, gold, or white garments are used to illustrate the intent of the grace that is dispensed to us. God's intent is to lead us from faith to faith, seperating us from the desires of this world. The intent of God's grace is to free us from the bondage of our carnal mind."



Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

2Cr 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Col 4:12 Epaphras, who is [one] of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.

Hbr 13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ;
to whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen.


"Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich;" 1Pe 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: This is the Gold we buy from Jesus Christ, even He is our Faith and our Purchased Salvation. Gold even our Faith, which is in Him and refined by Him and that is what we are becoming, which is the Golden Faith of Christ Himself in us the Hope of Glory.

I see my cup being filled with refined Gold and the dross is being poured off. Eph 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. This is our Gold, Christ Himself

Who is our sanctification? 1 Corinthians 1:30-31 But of Him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/2/17 1:34Profile
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Amen brothers, you sound like Christan and Faithful and hopeful in their discourses from the The Pilgrim's Progress

I am Jumping in here abit late, but this caught my eye...

You mentioned
Psalm 91:[b]1[/b]-4 He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High Shall abide [b]under the shadow of the Almighty[/b].
[b]2[/b] I will say of the LORD, “He is my refuge and my fortress; My God, in Him I will trust.
[b]:3[/b] Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.
[b]:4 He shall cover thee with his feathers[/b], and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.”

now read

Mattew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thouthat killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, [b]how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings[/b], and ye would not!

All these allude to the Passover, and in this mathew verse, Jesus was lamenting because he wanted to be there Passover Lame.

There is another thing that I wunder if I could prsuade you to see...
Christinyou wrote:

Quote:
The woman is the believer, the dead husband is Satan, and the new Husband is Christ, "another Man." May we be instruments of Christ, God willing, that He that is in us might reach all those that have been given Him.


Romans 7:2-3 "For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man."

The husband is not satan at all, not even the law it's self but the [b]requirements of the Law that was against us[/b]. The law is what bound her to the husband.

Colosians 2:14 having wiped out the handwriting of [b]requirements[/b] that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

The requirements are told best in this

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, [b]Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.[/b]
And
James 2:10 "For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it."

 2006/2/17 2:26Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
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 Re:

Eph 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

THAT YE MIGHT BE FILLED WITH ALL THE FULNESS OF GOD. Because it passeth knowledge, I guess this is a statement that we will not understand. But I see a different quality to this fullness which we have in the love of Christ.

Ephesians 3:16-18 That He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might by His Spirit in the inner man; That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

Do we dare believe that this is true. Not because of ourselves or even having the knowledge of the Old Testament and believing in a Messiah but by the power of God in Christ Jesus it is possible for those that are born again not of corruptible but of Incorruptable Seed, which is Christ in you the Hope of Glory.

Ephesians 3:19-21 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. Now unto Him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, Unto Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

This says we can, as no other has ever known, by the Glory of the Church by Christ Jesus. In the church or, by the church, Ephesians 3:10-11 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

The church is to be the instrument by which the glory of God will be shown; and it is by the church that His praise will be celebrated. This is the True Body of Christ the Church which is established by Christ the Head being born again in the Saints. "Throughout all ages, world without end." There is a richness and amplification of language here which shows that Paul's heart was so full of the subject, and that it was difficult to find words to express his conceptions. No version or even purposed person as Paul can fully express the meaning. It is, literally, "unto all generations of the age of ages," or "unto all the generations of the eternity of eternities, or the eternity of ages." It is the language of a heart FULL of the love of God, and desiring that God the Father might be praised without ceasing for ever and ever, and even this cannot express the fullness of what God has done in Christ Jesus who is in us which is all the Hope of all the Glory that God is due, in us and from us and all creation.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/2/17 3:12Profile





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