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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Born Again By What Means

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Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
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 Re:

Quote:

Jeff wrote;
"""They are still choosing to follow their own spririt are they not? What does Paul say of these believers? Is not the word of God the primary focus in Paul's ministry to them. He said that they were not able to receive the solid food but he had to continue feeding them the milk. Paul charged that they were still carnal. How is this possible if they have the testimony of Christ in them?"""

Because they did not know what Romans 6 says and walk in Christ instead of by their own works. Read Romans 6 carefully about 10 times and not in our own understanding but by the revelation of The Holy Spirit, who and what we are in Christ. I don't see where any old testament prophets or new testament apostles had this truth and the completeness of Christ in us and what He is doing for us and not us doing for Him.

Romans 6:3-4 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Abraham, Moses, Ezekiel, Joshua, none of these were baptized into Christ's death. The Corinthians did not know it either, that is why Paul spent so much time with them. That they might know the Glory of Christ in them, a miracle of miracles that no one could have had or understood, before it was revealed to Paul and given to new believers in Christ who had known nothing but the Law of Moses and certainly could not understand that God was going to put another person in them and that their salvation would be by Him and only by Him and all they had to do was believe what God said about His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Christ in us would be our Teacher from then on.

I agree with you about John, he had a special revelation of Christ that was because he loved Jesus so much. He taught us who Jesus is, not the history of who He was as a man. Jesus is no longer Jesus of Nazareth just as we are no longer men and women of earth, He is now Jesus the risen Lord and He lives His life in us and we are no longer of this earth either. That is what the Corinthians had to learn and what we have to learn today. Only Paul and a little of Peter and some of John's writing have this truth in them, no matter what you call old testament prophets or apostles which did not have this truth of A Person, Jesus Christ, being birthed in the believer is The Hope of Glory that we posses which nobody could before it happened, have this miracle of Christ in them.

Colossians 1:26-27 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Not Christ in Abraham or in Moses or the apostles because He was with them not in them until Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit would seal us into Christ and His Life in us the Hope of Glory.

2Cr 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Galatians 2:19-20 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Whose life do we now posses that could not be possessed before He was resurrected, ascended and come back in the believer, the Person Jesus Christ The Son of God, born again in believers, not the man Jesus of Nazareth.

This is just 2 scriptures in Romans 6, there is much much more and in studying it more we will find that it is endless of the possessions we have in Christ of who we are in Christ, and what we will become by the Christ that is in us which we our soul minds will be learning for all eternity, We have the Wisdom of Christ and will Have the Wisdom of Christ for ever and it will never end.

1 Corinthians 1:30-31 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/1/8 3:19Profile
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 Re:

Sis wrote:

Quote:
I'm surprised at your picking this excellent verse from the Old Testament, rather than any in the New Testament, which exhorts to walk in the Spirit,



I chose this verse to illustrate that God's work in man does not change. It is the word of God that points man to God. God has determined that His word precedes faith. Man is saved by grace through faith.

And yes Sis, the law that saves is not the one that was written on tablets of stone, a law that is weak because it is depended on the flesh. The law of the Spirit frees us from the bondage of the flesh.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/1/9 10:08Profile
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 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
Because they did not know what Romans 6 says and walk in Christ instead of by their own works.



Acts 18:9 Now the Lord spoke to Paul in the night by a vision, “Do not be afraid, but speak, and do not keep silent; 10 for I am with you, and no one will attack you to hurt you; for I have many people in this city.” 11 And he continued there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them.

Now in this Scripture Paul spent 18 months teaching the Corinthians. He who had the revelation of Christ taught only of Christ and Him crucified. So I am sure that Paul taught all things for the salvation that is in Christ. So all these who were not even apostles had the truth that Christ revealed to Paul.

Yet Paul could not talk to them about the things that are spiritual because they had not chose to seperate themselves from the yoke of this world. How does the word of God penetrate a man's spirit in a way that enables him to put away his affections for this world?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/1/9 10:47Profile
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 Re:

Brothe Phillip quoted:

Quote:
Romans 6:3-4 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.



Paul stated this as both a truth and an exhortation. Why the exhortation?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/1/9 10:51Profile
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 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
Whose life do we now posses that could not be possessed before He was resurrected, ascended and come back in the believer, the Person Jesus Christ The Son of God, born again in believers, not the man Jesus of Nazareth.




Is the source of the "light" and the "life," different in these Old Testament saints?

Job 33:28 He will redeem his soul from going down to the Pit,
And his life shall see the light.

Job 33:30 To bring back his soul from the Pit,
That he may be enlightened with the light of life.

Psa. 27:1 The LORD is my light and my salvation;
Whom shall I fear?
The LORD is the strength of my life;
Of whom shall I be afraid?

Psa. 36:9 For with You is the fountain of life;
In Your light we see light.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/1/9 10:58Profile
Christinyou
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 Re:

Quote: ""Is the source of the "light" and the "life," different in these Old Testament saints?"" The source is the same, the outcome is different.


Isaiah 63:16 Doubtless thou art our Father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our
Father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting. "Us" are future Christians, not Israel

Isa 63:16
Abraham be ignorant--acknowledge us not; though we be not, "according to the flesh," the children of Abraham and Israel. We need not understand these words of Gentiles in contrast with Jews. They are rather the prayer of the whole church, Jewish and Gentile; neither Jew or Gentile in Christ and they contain an intimation that, in the days of the Messiah, "the children of Abraham" shall no longer be reckoned according to outward descent. Compare Ro 4:11-12.

though Abraham . . . Israel--It had been the besetting temptation of the Jews to rest on the mere privilege of their descent from faithful Abraham and Jacob (Mt 3:9; Joh 8:39; 4:12); now at last they renounce this, to trust in God alone as their Father, notwithstanding all appearances to the contrary. Even though Abraham, our earthly father, on whom we have prided ourselves, disown us, Thou wilt not (Isa 49:15; Ps 27:10). Isaac is not mentioned, because not all his posterity was admitted to the covenant, whereas all Jacob's was; Abraham is specified because he was the first father of the Jewish race.

Cf. Isa 1:2; 64:8. Israel, collectively, the national Israel, recognizes God as the national Father (Source) (cf) Ex 4:22-23, Doubtless the believing Israelite was born anew (cf) Joh 3:3,5; Lu 13:28 but the O.T. Scriptures show no trace of the consciousness of personal sonship. (OUTCOME) The explanation is given in Ga 4:1-7.

Galatians 4:1-7 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the Father. Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world: But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, (OLD) but a son;(NEW) and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. There is a difference between a created son of Israel, the children of Jacob and the Christ birthed in the son's of God by Christ in them. Heirs of God and Joint heirs with Jesus Christ.
We are the Bride of Christ as oneness with husband and wife oneness, but our oneness is by the Seed of The Father the Incorruptable Seed Jesus Christ birthed in us making us The Seed of God not the seed of Abraham. Israel is the wife of God and a wife is not seed kin to the Husband. A wife can be divorced. Son's cannot. You ask about the difference, this is it, Christians are Christ Ones, Born Again by Incorruptable Seed of the Father and son's of God. Gal 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ

We could not be heirs until Christ adopted us and was birthed in us and sealed by the Holy Spirit. No sonship until after Pentecost, then the Holy Spirit seals each believer into Christ and Christ could not be sealed in the believer until the atonement was complete in His ascention and return in being born again by Water and the Spirit in the believer. Not possible before the fullness of time appointed by the Father. Christ's promise of the Comforter is the express appointed time, by Christ saying My Father will send Him to you. Then Christ could be sealed in the believers, but not until after Pentecost.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/1/9 17:57Profile
Christinyou
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 Re:

Quote;


Paul stated this as both a truth and an exhortation. Why the exhortation?

That we think of ourselves as and in being crucified with Christ, resurrected with Christ, adopted by Christ as son's, and even to the birth of His Spirit into and in Union with our spirit, by the Holy Spirit sealed and with the Mind of Christ, and His Father as our Father.
1 Peter 4:1-2 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God. This is the will of the Father.
Galatians 2:16-21 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
The Holy Spirit now reveals these truths in us that from Pentecost until now, that Christ is being revealed in us from Glory to Glory and my life is now Christ, which until Paul was given this truth the early Church did not get it, and we hear nothing until Paul began teaching this truth some 15 years after Pentecost. Christ in you the Hope of Glory. This is why the Holy Spirit came at Pentecost, to reveal this Christ in us. The great Pentecostal Preacher, Peter did not mention the Cross as Paul did,
Peter preaching; Act 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, [even] by him doth this man stand here before you whole. Peter is still teaching about the Man Jesus, and repentance and baptisms.
Paul is preaching about The Christ that is in him, a Person and His only life.
1Cr 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
1 Corinthians 2:14-16 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

This is how we receive the things of the Spirit by the Mind of Christ. For it is of the Mind of Christ that the Holy Spirit receives of Christ, the things that are of Christ. John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: Christ had to be with the Father before He could send Him from the Father. Hence Pentecost. After which we can receive the things they could not bear yet. John 16:12-14 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for He shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak: and He will shew you things to come. He shall glorify Me: for He shall receive of Mine, and shall shew it unto you. It is shown in Paul and all those that know the Christ that is in them the Hope of Glory.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/1/9 20:23Profile
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 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
Galatians 4:1-7 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the Father. Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world: But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, (OLD) but a son;(NEW) and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.




I ask you once before in this thread, concerning the Scripture you point too. From memory of your testimony, I recall that you spoke of living under the law and experiencing powerlessness and frustration. Then there came a point of change. Does your testimony parallel the thoughts of Scripture above?

Quote:
Not possible before the fullness of time appointed by the Father. Christ's promise of the Comforter is the express appointed time, by Christ saying My Father will send Him to you. Then Christ could be sealed in the believers, but not until after Pentecost.



How do you see your own experience with God? Is it dispensational theology or is it real? Were you as a child kept under the law until the appointed time by which God introduced you to the seal of His Holy Spirit?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/1/10 12:36Profile
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 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
That we think of ourselves as and in being crucified with Christ, resurrected with Christ, adopted by Christ as son's, and even to the birth of His Spirit into and in Union with our spirit, by the Holy Spirit sealed and with the Mind of Christ, and His Father as our Father.




Do you see this Scripture as a practice of "Self-realization?" How can one know what Paul speaks of unless one is willing to accept Paul's teaching in Roman 8:13

"For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live."

I believe Pauls statement is more of an exhortation to point the believer in the same way a John does in 1 John. That is, if you say you are a believer, are you really living according to the ways of the Spirit. Scripture speaks more of what is reality. What is the process. The outcome is predestined. We who believe will become more like Christ.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/1/10 12:54Profile
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 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
This is how we receive the things of the Spirit by the Mind of Christ. For it is of the Mind of Christ that the Holy Spirit receives of Christ, the things that are of Christ.



The Corinthians were given the mind of Christ yet they were not spiritually mature. What is it that prevented them from know the Spirit of Christ?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/1/10 12:57Profile





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