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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Born Again By What Means

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groh_frog
Member



Joined: 2005/1/5
Posts: 432


 Re:

I was just listening to Jackie Pullinger talk about new converts. Well, she said that the first thing they do with these new converts is teach them to pray. No Bible at first. Rather, they teach them to have a genuine relationship with their creator first and foremost, so that they don't always need to pick through doctrine of what's "ok" or "not ok"- they already know.

Would be cool to see more of that.

Grace and Peace...

 2005/12/31 23:39Profile









 Re:


groh_frog,

In a sense I guess thats basically what I did.She asked me is it still ok to go to night clubs and I just said,"no." It was one of those moments where people just catch you off gaurd.It was kind of funny because I was just matter of fact about it and she just gave me this quizzical look like "you don't have to be so blunt."


 2006/1/1 0:16
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Sister Rebecca wrote:

Quote:
I didn't actually say that because I was caught off gaurd. Sometimes I really don't know what to say to people that say such things without offending them.Anyone have any suggestions?



Jesus gave this command:

Matt. 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

We often believe we obey the command by telling someone of the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ. We ask them to pray along with us and then we go on about our own business. Yet look more closely to what Jesus asks of us. He commands: "Go therefore and make [b]disciples[/b]..."

What does it require of us? It requires our time and love to continue on in the lives of the new born. Just like a baby, they need care and training in the word of God. They need to see a witness of Jesus Christ in our own lives.

Don't shrink back from that women. Come alongside of her.

God Bless

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/1/2 11:17Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother wrote:

Quote:
No Bible at first. Rather, they teach them to have a genuine relationship with their creator first and foremost, so that they don't always need to pick through doctrine of what's "ok" or "not ok"- they already know.



The Bible and doctrine many times conflict with each other. Throw out the doctrine and let Him teach us through His word.

There is a testimony from the Home Church of China where they have a hunger for the word of God. Each family would take a page or a chapter of the Scriptures and reproduce the word of God. Then they would trade for other pages.

Brother Yun who participates in the Back to Jerusalem ministry wrote of the circumstances you speak of groh-frog. He said that at first the outside missionaries would smuggle in thousands of Bibles to the Chinese home church. The home church was vibrant and powerful. Then as time went on, the boxes of Bibles also contained doctrinal books of various kinds. Brother Yun then testified that divisions began to take root in the Chinese home church.

His wish was that these missionaries would continue to supply the Chinese church with Bibles and that they should keep their other publications to themselves.

A newborn needs the milk of the word of God. Without the word there can be no foundation built upon the Rock.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/1/2 11:35Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Sister Dorcas wrote:

Quote:
Depends if they are saved when they start to doubt, but, doubt is very paralysing. If they are saved, they need to address the reason they are so swayed away from the truth.



It is God's work to remove the doubt. He begins by proving to us that He is real. Look to Scripture in the Gospels. Through signs and wonders Jesus proved that He was sent from the Father. Many who first followed Jesus because of the signs and wonders fell away because of the hard teachings that Jesus continued to develop as He discipled those who chose to remain.

Read though the Gospels with the mindset of searching for the progression in His discipling of those who were left. This progression parrallels the sower of the seed parable.

The carnal man cannot escape from doubt because it is God's responsiblity to transform him into a spiritual man. Paul always points to this dilema that exists for all men. What is his recommendation to the carnal man?

Romans 8

5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.


Rom. 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.


The Spirit of God will provide our the daily bread, are we willing to eat? This is where unbelief destroys the path.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/1/2 11:58Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

Dorcas wrote:

""Preaching the word must have the intrinsic power to break through that unbelief in some people. The ultimate unbelief though, is to have heard of Jesus Christ, and been made aware that He is the only source of salvation, and still to choose not to believe in Him and not to receive His grace through faith, and be saved from sin and hell for ever.""



Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

You are speaking of the Seed that is not planted on fertile ground and Satan takes it away. Only by the Grace and Faith of Christ are any able to be born again by the Incorruptable Seed and that Seed take root and bring forth fruit. Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible
seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

It is by His Faith that we are saved. John 3:27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

John 3:29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

The bride is given Him by the Father and whom He has given Him He will loose none except Judas. That includes all the Body of Christ the Church.

John 3:32-33 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth His testimony. He that hath received His testimony hath set to His seal that God is true.

All things have been given to the Son and that includes all those that will believe because of His testimony that is birthed in us. The Holy Spirit came for this purpose to convict of sin and give birth and seal the Christ that is in us.

John 3:35-36 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

The Father has given the Body of Christ the Church to the Son and upon this revelation Christ said, "I will build my Church."

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year Lynn

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2006/1/3 2:02Profile









 Re: Born Again By What Means


Phillip, thank you 8-)

May the Lord keep you in His peace this coming year, and bless you with spiritual gifts according to His will.

 2006/1/3 8:39









 Re: Born Again By What Means

Quote:
The first thing that crossed my mind is are you sure your saved? Forget about the night clubs,why would you want to go there for?

I didn't actually say that because I was caught off gaurd. Sometimes I really don't know what to say to people that say such things without offending them.Anyone have any suggestions?

Rebecca,

I have learned to turn some questions back to the person asking.... and also, I've learned not to say 'No' and 'Don't', even if I wouldn't do such a thing myself.

So... my suggestion would be to ask things like

Have you prayed about it.... asked the Lord what He wants you to do with the time you used to spend clubbing?'

or Have you been back to a night club since you were saved?
How do you feel about that?
Did it make you feel compromised?
Did you feel the Lord went with you?
Did it make you feel unclean?
Were you tempted to drink too much?

Iow, if you can show the person they had [i]less[/i] fellowship with God rather than more, because of going to a nightclub - maybe even showing from the Bible about the things we are to stop doing - then the person has answered their original question for themselves and they [u]now[/u] need to bring their life into line with what they [i]know deep down[/i] is the truth.

You could offer to pray with them about this... not in a condemning way, but so they feel they are not the first to have to choose to stay away from a previous activity in order to glorify God with their life, more. Maybe the person needs an invite to do something else on an evening....?

 2006/1/3 8:49









 Re: Born Again By What Means

Quote:
I was just listening to Jackie Pullinger talk about new converts. Well, she said that the first thing they do with these new converts is teach them to pray. No Bible at first. Rather, they teach them to have a genuine relationship with their creator first and foremost, so that they don't always need to pick through doctrine of what's "ok" or "not ok"- they already know.

Gotta admit, most of my going through with God was prayer first... whatever else one is confused about, one knows what God has said when He has spoken.

 2006/1/3 8:52
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
You are speaking of the Seed that is not planted on fertile ground and Satan takes it away. Only by the Grace and Faith of Christ are any able to be born again by the Incorruptable Seed and that Seed take root and bring forth fruit. Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.




The incorruptable seed is also planted in the hearts of those who fall away because they choose to submit to temptations. The seed sprouts into a living plant. The incorruptable seed also sprouts into a living plant in the lives of those who continue to live for the affections they have for the things of this world.


Luke 8
13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. 14 Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity.


Many look to the Spiritual experience of being Born Again at the moment when it sprouts. Your thoughts seem to suggest that the seed never sprouts in the hearts of the first three groups.

Am I wrong in how I framed your position?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2006/1/3 10:43Profile





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