| Poster | Thread | LetUsPray
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Joined: 2004/10/12
Posts: 173
| | Re: What Kind of Counsel? | | I apologize to come in so late, but I want to highlight something that is not often addressed in our churches. I believe that it touches on what has been discussed, but also that it goes a bit further. It deals with LISTENING and UNDERSTANDING what the Holy Spirit tells us.
Quote:
It's not enough for us to be the center of our own universe. We want to be the center of everyone else's universe as well--including God's. In his book Finding God, Dr. Larry Crabb offers a penetrating analysis of the extent to which the evangelical church has given in to this deception:
"Helping people to feel loved and worthwhile has become the central mission of the church. We are learning not to worship God in self-denial and costly service, but to embrace our inner child, heal our memories, overcome addictions, lift our depressions, improve our self-images, establish self-preserving boundaries, substitute self-love for self-hatred, and replace shame with an affirming acceptance of who we are. Recovery from pain is absorbing an increasing share of the church's energy. And it is alarming...
We have become committed to relieving the pain behind our problems rather than using our pain to wrestle more passionately with the character and purpose of God. Feeling better has become more important than finding God...
Quote:
Paul understood that God does not exist for us, but that we exist for Him:
"For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him." col.1:16. "...nor do I count my life dear to myself, so that I may finish my race with joy, and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify to the gospel of the grace of God." acts 20:24 .
The bottom line for Paul was: "TO LIVE IS CHRIST." Once that was settled, nothing else mattered much."
--Nancy DeMoss
These quotes reflect truth, but there remains a problem. Knowing all that, being taught all that, etc., etc, may still leave somebody in bondage. Sometimes more is needed.
Example: a number of years ago I (together with a lady from the church I attended at the time), counseled a Christian lady who had been systematically sexually abused for a number of years. Did she love Jesus? Yes, otherwise she would have ended her life. Did she receive proper counsel? No, for she was still tormented. Did she know that she had to crucify self and that Jesus was All in All? Yes, but she was still tormented.
After we had seen her twice, she called again. During the time she called the Lord gave me a word. Did I run over to tell her the word? No, it was given so we could finally get to the real issue. There were three sexual spirits who physically oppressed her at night. Only through the word of knowledge, could we insist and persist until the truth came out. This was so immensely embarrassing for this lady that she couldnt say it, she had written it down and it took three hours of patiently and lovingly insisting that there was something else, before she finally got the letter out of her bedroom and gave it to me. The church is full of well-meaning but judgmental Christians. How does one tell as a Christian many denominations dont even accept this possibility that one is tormented in this way? It is so sad, because one simple prayer and a command in the Mighty, All Powerful Name of Jesus, set this lady free, after many counselors, churches, and who knows what else.
We dont have all the answers, but Praise God, we have a Savior Who Does!
If wed only learned to obey, AND listen.
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Hans Prang
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|  2005/9/26 11:36 | Profile | ginnyrose
Member
Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi
| | Re: | | Lahry,
Here is a scripture that has challenged me so much: Isaiah 8:12-14a: You are not to say, 'It is a conspiracy!' In regard to all that this people call a conspiracy. And you are not to fear what they fear or be in dread of it. It is the LORD of Hosts whom you should regard as holy. And he shall be your fear. And he shall be your dread. Then he will become a sanctuary.....(NASB) (Sorry if this translation offends you..).
Perhaps this can help you with your fear. I understand this is talking about conspiracies, however, do not most fears depend on uncertainities? This then means we must learn to discern the voice of the Spirit in affairs of life and if questions remain about this all we need to do is ask Jesus to teach you to be able to discern his voice, discern between your thoughts and His voice. When you get this it will give you courage unlike you ever have had before.
God bless you in your walk with Him,
ginnyrose
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Sandra Miller
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| | 2005/9/26 12:37 | Profile | LetUsPray
Member
Joined: 2004/10/12
Posts: 173
| | Re: What Kind of Counsel? | | Last week I posted under Forum Revival Prayer: If you think this is useful, WILL YOU? Reading through this thread and a number of the posts, I cannot help wonder why so few SI members responded to this question?
Paul, in these two prayers, gives us a clear direction to More Of Him, a clear and concise expression of Who Christ is at the same time asking the Father to make it clear to us, SO THAT CHRIST MAY BE FORMED IN US.
In Ephesians 2:10 Paul tells us: For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
What better way to according to His will, ask Him to open the door, so we may walk through it to do the good works He has prepared for us in Christ Jesus. You may not believe this, but God actually does exactly that. He opens the door, and He prepares you for His service. Sometimes it may take quite a long time, if so, then wait IN HIM.
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Hans Prang
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| | 2005/9/26 13:23 | Profile | roadsign
Member
Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777
| | Re: being prepared | | Quote:
What better way to according to His will, ask Him to open the door, so we may walk through it to do the good works He has prepared for us in Christ Jesus. You may not believe this, but God actually does exactly that. He opens the door, and He prepares you for His service. Sometimes it may take quite a long time, if so, then wait IN HIM.
Wow! Hans, What timely words for me. I just finished this thread, not planning to respond to it - till I got to these words at the very end of it all.
This is just what is happening to me. He opened a door:
For a while now, I have been trying to understand the issue of homosexuality and trying to learn how we as Christians can help. In spite of many unhelpful words from Christians, God has not failed to teach me and guide me. I kept on trying to learn, even though there are no homosexuals directly in my life.
Well, just four days ago, I got an email from a lady who found me through the web, and she poured out all her pain and grief, and shame that has resulted because she just discovered that her daughter was a homosexual and had hidden it for ten years. She shared how she couldn't talk about it with anyone in the church. (That doesn't surprise me!)
Anyway - this mom is truly broken. She has committed herself to Christ and is allowing him to work in her own life - break down her pride and unhealed areas. This is rapidly shaping into a truely touching story of God's merciful hand. As I minister to this mother, and encourage her in her relationship with God, I know that she will be able to minister wisely to her daughter, and the barriers will be broken down.
True healing is a work of God, and we are merely his servants preparing our lives to obey him at any time in the ministry of counsel and edification. As we are prepared, he will bring the broken to us.
Diane
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Diane
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| | 2005/9/26 15:50 | Profile |
| | Re: I got off of my dead back side today and went...... | | Chanin and all,
I was so disgusted with myself this morning that I went and got my wife and we drove down to New Orleans and visited Pastor Troy Bohn. My Lord what a mess they have on their hands down there. Every house has all it's furniture pilled up at the street. Mulitiply that around the church Troy is Pastoring.
The dry wall had to be cut off the walls at the mid way point because that is how high the water was in the church and in the school. They now have power. In the midst of all this they are distributing food and cooking meals for "whosoeverwill".
My wife and I got to do some real prestigious ministry. There was a card board box there about 4x4x4. It was filled with disposable diapers of all sizes. So we sorted and bagged them for the folks coming in that need them. What a privilege to help them, even in such a small way.
Pastor Troy and his associate pastor both lost their homes and all their belongings. Devasted? Hardly. They have "aquired" some old motor homes and have them parked behind the school. That way than can stay close to all the activity. Pastor Troy had to stop and think of what day of the week it was. He was not even sure that we were still in September. It's just been one day at a time. Dismayed? Discouraged? Absolutely not! He is in ministry heaven. Peoples needs are being met and souls are still be won to Christ. It never stops with Troy and his team. It's all they live for and live they do. They are alive in Christ Jesus.
We are planning on going back next weekend and try to get some other folks to go with us. This is not going to go away any time soon. The needs are overwhelming for man, but God is supplying in the midst of it all. What a privilege to finally get to fellowship with Troy. Oh how I love this wonderful man of God.
We were talking about ministry, and he related the following about a recent trip to Los Angeles, his home town. He said they were on Hollywood Blvd. They had cast some demons out of some folks so a police car came rushing up too them. The policeman inquired about a report that they had recieved that somebody was casting out devils. Troy said, "that would be us, officer". The policeman asked, "do you have a license to do that". Troy said "sure, you want to see it"? The policeman quickly replied no. Just as he was about to get in his squad car and leave, he turned around and said, "don't you be casting demons out of anyone who doesn't want you to do that".
Is that hillarious or what. Troy is unshakable. He is such a humble man, full of grace and love for his God and his fellowman.
If you would like to know more about Pastor Bohn, go too www.biggrace.com. It won't take you long there to see that Troy Bohn and his team are diligent about winning souls and helping the down and out. There is also a place where you can donate if you like. I can tell you assuredly, this is a worthy place to sew seed in the kingdom.
He said they are well stocked with clothes, but food, diapers and such as that, consumables are what will be needed for a long time. So if you want to help that way, praise God. Just contact them through the info on the web page above. I know Chanin's husband and family have already gotten infected with the grace that God gives to those who will lay it on the line for another. It is so awesome.
We are planning at least one day down there each weekend, to help, it doesn't matter doing whatever. It just matters that I need to be there, helping in the kingdom of God instead of the kingdom of man. I have also discussed briefly about a long term service with them in the near future. All Debbie and I really need is a average size travel trailer, and I would quit tommorrow and go. If you know of anyone who has one they would like to sew into the kingdom, do let us know. We don't need much, just a place to lay our head.
Well, that's my report from the scene. To the passer by it looks like chaos and disaster. But in reality, it is a move of God to draw untold thousands to Himself. He is still a jealous God. To God be the glory, now and forever amen.
In Him,
Lahry
Chanin, Pastor Bohn was really delighted to meed your husband. I could tell it was a meeting of two servants of the Lord. I'm so glad for all. Keep up the good work. You are making a difference. Praise God. Who knows, we may just see you there someday soon.
Lahry |
| | 2005/9/26 18:17 | | moreofHim
Member
Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632
| | Re: Lahry | | I know this is kind of getting this thread off track but.....
Lahry,
Bless your heart!!! I am so glad that you had a chance to go and "be the church" :-). Isn't it amazing that you finally got to meet Pastor Troy in person? I mean, even the fact that my husband and daughter got to meet up with him, through you, through me through Sermonindex! Only God can do that! What divine appts. He is making.
What you wrote about helping with the diapers- it so reminded me of Oswald Chamber's biography where he was explaining about the annual Camp meeting they were doing.
Quote:
One thing that remains with us long as we live was not the preaching, not the meetings, nor the marches, nor the testimonies (these were grand) but the splendid, supereffacing service of the students who waited tables, washed the dishes, erected tents, pulled them down and DID THE DRUDGERY. Their lives for 10 days were one unbroken testimony to the blessing of God and to one at least, the impression grew strong, that if our Lord was here, He would still again be hidden and obscure as ONE WHO SERVED.
Praise God!
In Him, Chanin
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Chanin
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| | 2005/9/26 20:35 | Profile | moreofHim
Member
Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632
| | Re: | | Oh, I forgot.... I LOVED the story about Pastor Troy and the police! What a hoot! I can just see it all right now. :-)
In Him, Chanin
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Chanin
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| | 2005/9/26 20:46 | Profile |
| | Re: Praise the Lord | | God is so good.....all the time.
Lahry |
| | 2005/9/26 22:07 | | HopeinChrist
Member
Joined: 2005/8/8
Posts: 258
| | Re: | | Quote:
She shared how she couldn't talk about it with anyone in the church. (That doesn't surprise me!)
It doesn't surprise me either. I think the majority of churches (in America at least)ignore masses of hurting broken people. This is why there are so many Christians seeking counsel from secular avenues, because the church refuses to deal with it. The one quote from Larry Crabb, (whom I have alot of respect for) indicated that this seems to be the whole mission of today's church. I'm sorry but I just don't see it. Yes they are preaching feel good messages but they are still ignoring real issues in the lives of people. I'm not sure if they just don't want to deal with it or if they just don't know how. Compassion is required to minister to hurting people. This means being touched with the feeling of their infirmities. Are we not willing to do this? Does it rehash unresolved issues in our own lives that we have stuffed and kept in darkness rather than bringing it to his light where healing can begin. I made a post yesterday in the Healing who gets it thread on Luke 4:18 which I am going to repost a portion of here because I think many missed it because the thread had fizzled.
The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised
broken=to crush completely, to shatter, break in pieces and shivers, to bruise.
heart carries the idea of.....thoughts, feelings, and mind, which to me would represent the soul.
I find it intriguing that Jesus specifically referred to this healing as part of his purpose.
This kind of healing is usually a process rather than an event. Think about this shattering leading to shivers. These shivers may be buried deep and in various places. Some may surface quickly and be dealt with and others may take some time to surface. Perhaps some event will cause a shiver to surface or it may be that our compassionate, patient physician is waiting for us to mature and grow in trust and dependency on Him so that he can begin to dig around and cleanse those tender areas.
Diane wrote
Quote:
The church is full of well-meaning but judgmental Christians. How does one tell as a Christian many denominations dont even accept this possibility that one is tormented in this way? It is so sad, because one simple prayer and a command in the Mighty, All Powerful Name of Jesus, set this lady free, after many counselors, churches, and who knows what else. We dont have all the answers, but Praise God, we have a Savior Who Does! If wed only learned to obey, AND listen.
It deals with LISTENING and UNDERSTANDING what the Holy Spirit tells us.
This is key. Look at the various ways Jesus healed blind people. I think this was to show us not to get hung up on methods. There are endless circumstances that could lead to a person being shattered in the heart. Two individuals who may have experienced similar circumstances causing their brokenness may arrive at their healing by different avenues or methods but the Who (Jesus) it comes through will be the same.
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| | 2005/9/27 0:23 | Profile | roadsign
Member
Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777
| | Re: | | Quote:
This means being touched with the feeling of their infirmities. Are we not willing to do this? Does it rehash unresolved issues in our own lives that we have stuffed and kept in darkness rather than bringing it to his light where healing can begin.
I think this is the issue. We cannot minister to the infirmities (vulnerability) of others until we have been sufficiently broken. I've seen this over and over again. Those who have been through the pain of the healing process, can relate, and are not so prone to judge and give unrealistic solutions.
While taking counseling courses can be of great value, and while professionals are needed, there is a very, very deep need for an ongoing context of trusting relationship.
The latest Barna Statistic reveals that most evangelicals feel they are doing well in this area of relationship. If their self-perception was true, we would be witnessing an incredible massive healing of broken hearts and broken relationships within our churches and communities. My how self-deluded we are!!!!
May God do whatever it takes to break us out of our mass denial.
Diane
(P.S.,HopeinChrist, I do not claim that last quote you made, but I sure agree with it)
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Diane
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| | 2005/9/27 7:43 | Profile |
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