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 ~ Jesus ~

[color=006633]www.watchman.net

[b]All Things In Christ[/b]
by Chip Brogden

"For of Him, and through Him, and to Him, are all things: to Whom be glory for ever. Amen. (Romans 11:36)."

In my written and spoken messages I make frequent reference to the preeminence of Christ. Just what do we mean by Christ having the preeminence? What do we mean by giving Christ the preeminence in all things?

"Preeminence" literally means having the first, highest, chief, and best place in a position of ascendancy over everything else. It is an ultimacy, a glory, an honor, a distinction, a prestige, an illustriousness, a renown, a notability, and a nobility that surpasses all others. Paul simply says that the aim of God is for JESUS CHRIST to have THAT kind of position in - all things. That explains everything God has done, is doing and will do. But what does he mean by "all things"?

Whenever I teach from a passage that includes the phrase "all things" I usually stop and ask, "Now how many things does 'all things' include?" And the people always respond, "Everything!" That word "all" is a very large word, a very encompassing word. There is nothing outside of "all"! How casually and easily we allow our eyes to glance past these words. We have not comprehended them. If we comprehended them we could not read them with a yawn, but we would read them with a shout!

If we intend to make some exception to "all" we might say something like, "everything but" or "everything except" in order to qualify what we mean as something less than "all". But "all things" is without qualification. "All" is "all", and "all things" is everything. Nothing is left out, nothing is excluded. It is not necessary for us to list every single thing that "all" includes, because "all" is all-inclusive. But what about this, you ask? It is among the All. And what of this, you say? That, too, is included in the All. And what about this thing, or that thing? Oh yes, they are in the All as well. You cannot come up with a single thing that is not included in All.

So in Romans 11:36 Paul sums up the preeminence of Christ into three expressions: "Of Him... through Him... to Him... are ALL THINGS." "OF HIM" says that everything which exists - things in heaven, things in earth, everything that was created, everything that has come into being, everything that will come into being - is created by, and because of, CHRIST. "THROUGH HIM" says that everything which lives, moves, breathes, operates, exists, or functions in this universe, whether animate or inanimate, whether biological, chemical, spiritual, natural, or cosmotological - does so THROUGH CHRIST, Who sovereignly upholds all these things, determines their place, and keeps them in order. "TO HIM" says that everything, no matter how far from God's Thought it may be, no matter how chaotic things may appear, is being directed, summed up, and gathered together INTO CHRIST. As the Alpha, all things flow FROM Him; as the Omega, all things flow TO Him.

That is quite a paragraph. A paragraph like that cannot be grasped in one reading. But that paragraph is, in essence, what Paul means, and what we mean, by Christ having the preeminence in all things. We are talking about Jesus as Lord over us individually, over the Church corporately, and over all creation collectively. We are talking about a preeminent Christ Who is exalted above every principality and power, rule and dominion; things visible, things invisible; things past, things present, things future; things in heaven, things in earth, things under the earth: all things are OF Him, all things are THROUGH Him, and all things are TO Him. That is preeminence.

Let us go through the Scriptures and bring out a few gems from the storehouse of tremendous wealth and riches in Christ. Our criteria for selecting these particular Scriptures was very simple. We wanted to look at every reference that mentions Christ in connection with His preeminence over "all things". We found quite a number. There are dozens more references that support our study, but we have included only the ones which contain the phrase "all things". Once we gathered the references together, we sorted them according to Romans 11:36 - those that are OF Him, those that are THROUGH Him, and those that are TO Him.

The result of that study is the basis of this writing. I pray these will not be mere verses of Scripture to us, but will be the very means through which the Father gives us greater illumination and revelation into His Son. We ought to meditate on this daily and ask the Lord to open our eyes to see the height, depth, width, length, and breadth of this JESUS Whom we say we serve. May God deliver us from our own idea, concept, perception, and illusion of a small Christ and give us revelation into the preeminence of His Son.

I promise that if you will read through these verses once or twice a day, every day, it will be impossible for you to remain unaffected by the Truth they present! I am affected just in the preparation of this material, and how much more in the application and apprehending of it! When we see Christ as All in All then it will be impossible for us to ever again be reduced to the small, the trivial, the petty things which occupy us and waste so much of our time. Our only hope is seeing a Christ that fills us, a Christ that is greater than us, a Christ that is larger than we can fathom, an indescribable Christ that overshadows, overwhelms, and consumes us through and through!


OF HIM ARE ALL THINGS

"All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made (John 1:3)."

"And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ (Ephesians 3:9)."

"For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him (Colossians 1:16)."

"For Whom are all things, and by Whom are all things (Hebrews 2:10ff)."

"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of Whom are all things, and we in Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by Whom are all things, and we by Him (I Corinthians 8:6)."

"Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created (Revelation 4:11)."

The Father declares the preeminence of His Son by involving Him in the process of creating all things. As a result, nothing was created apart from Christ. Of Him are all things - things in heaven, in earth, visible, invisible, spiritual, and physical. Scientists believe there may be as many as twenty-four dimensions in this universe, of which we only know five. However many there may be, He is preeminent over them all. Thus, the Lord Jesus Christ is the Alpha, the Beginning, the First, the Source. This establishes Him as preeminent over all creation.

All things were created by Him, and everything was created for Him. For Him! Why this earth, the moon, the stars, the galaxies? Why the animals, the birds, the fish, the insects? Why men and women, angels, cherubim, and seraphim? For Him! All for Him! God's original thought is for Christ to fill every created thing with His Life, Love, and Glory. A design implies a Designer, a plan implies a Planner, and a creation implies a Creator. We are not drifting along aimlessly, and we did not come into being by accident. We were created by Him, and we were created for Him. We were created to love Him, and to be loved by Him.

Of the three spheres - of Him, through Him, and to Him - "of Him" is probably the easiest to grasp. It is easier for us to look backwards and see Christ in retrospect than it is for us to perceive the present and to discern the future. But He is All of these at once. It is not that in times past He was the Alpha, and after a lengthy period of time He become the Omega. No, "I AM Alpha AND Omega, the Beginning AND the Ending, says the Lord: which was AND which is to come, the Almighty (Revelation 1:8)." And, "They rest not day and night saying, 'Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, AND is, AND is to come (Revelation 4:8b)." He always has been AND He always is AND He always will be; hence three "Holies" are necessary. What a mighty God!

So we progress forward and see that...


THROUGH HIM ARE ALL THINGS

First, all things are in His hands:

"All things are delivered unto Me of My Father (Matthew 11:27)."

"The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into His hand (John 3:35)."

"Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into His hands, and that He was come from God, and went to God (John 13:3)."

"All things that the Father hath are Mine (John 16:15a)."

"[God] hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son, Whom He hath appointed Heir of all things (Hebrews 1:2a)."

His hands speak of His Ownership, His Authority, His Possessing of all things. The Father gave all things to the Son. Then, because all things are in His hands, all things are under His feet. His feet speak of His Dominion, His Rule, His subjecting of all things to the authority that is in His hands.

"Thou madest Him to have dominion over the works of Thy hands; thou has put all things under His feet (Psalms 8:6)."

"And hath put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be the Head over all things to the Church (Ephesians 1:22)."

"And He is the Head of the Body, the Church: Who is the Beginning, the Firstborn from the dead; that in all things He might have the preeminence (Colossians 1:18)."

"Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that He put all in subjection under him, He left nothing that is not put under him. (Hebrews 2:8a)

This possession and subjection of all things to Christ is not a passive, disinterested, distant, absentee ownership, like a clock that was once wound and now ticks all by itself long after the watchmaker has left it. Make no mistake: at the core of this spiritual and physical universe is a living, powerful, proactive Personality at work to bring fallen creation back to its original state, back into line with God's Purpose, Heart, Mind, Desire, and Plan, which is CHRIST FILLING ALL THINGS, CHRIST UPHOLDING ALL THINGS, CHRIST AT THE CENTER OF ALL THINGS! Come quickly Lord Jesus! May Your Kingdom be manifest!

"And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist [Greek: find their being, take their place] (Colossians 1:17)."

"Who being the brightness of His glory, and the express image of His Person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high (Hebrews 1:3)."

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose (Romans 8:28)."

"Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of Him with whom we have to do (Hebrews 4:13)."

"For the Spirit searches all things, yea, the deep things of God (I Corinthians 2:10)."

Everything is upheld by His power, and all things are working together according to His Purpose. The Spirit searches all things and reveals them for what they are. Before Him everything is manifest, and there is nothing hidden from Him. There is no darkness that He does not penetrate, no deception that He cannot illuminate, no evil that He will not eradicate.

"He must increase, but I must decrease (John 3:30)." Christ is ever increasing in order to fill all things, conforming them to His image, so that His glory is manifest in every corner of Creation - and He begins with individual disciples. The increasing of Christ and the decreasing of Self in every individual disciple is but a fragment of an ultimate Plan which extends from each disciple, to "two or three gathered together", to the Church, and finally to all Creation. We should be able to look at each disciple and see a demonstration of Christ filling All in All: "Look, this is what I intend to do with all Creation." He will continue to increase, and everything outside of Him will continue to decrease, until there will remain nothing outside of Him. He is Lord!


TO HIM ARE ALL THINGS

"Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body, according to the working whereby He is able even to subdue all things unto Himself (Philippians 3:21)."

"And when all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him that put all things under Him, that God may be All in All (I Corinthians 15:28)."

"That in the dispensation of the fulness of times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in Him (Ephesians 1:10)."

"And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by Him to reconcile all things unto Himself; by Him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven (Colossians 1:20)."

"He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that He might fill all things (Ephesians 4:10)."

Everything is moving back TOWARDS a Christocentric universe, so that as it was in the beginning, so it will be in the ending. Just as all things have their source and beginning in Christ, so all things will have their ending in Christ. He subdues all things, in order to gather together and reconcile all things, that He may fill all things. What a task that is! How can that be? How can all things ever be subdued, gathered together into one, reconciled, and filled by Christ? We cannot say how, but we know that "He is able". Praise God, how can we doubt Him? How can we question this Man? Do we not yet know that He is the Preeminent One? Let us bow down and thank and praise God that He is able!

When we pray, "May Your Name be hallowed, may Your Kingdom come, may Your Will be done: as in heaven, so in earth", this is the End we have in mind: "all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are in earth, even in Him." This reconciliation and marriage of heaven and earth is a tremendous thing. In heaven, His Word is settled forever (Psalms 119:89); but on earth, things are very unsettled. In heaven, we see Jesus seated at the right hand of God, exalted above all principality and power, name and dominion; but on earth, "we see not yet all things put under Him (Hebrews 2:8b)." We see that "the heavens are the Lord's: but the earth has He given to the children of men (Psalms 115:16)."

One day that discrepancy and unceasing conflict, that great chasm between Heaven and Earth, will be healed.

"And He that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new (Revelation 21:5a)."

"He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and He shall be my son (Revelation 21:7)."

"How shall He not, with Him, freely give us all things (Romans 8:32b)?"

"Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him that loved us (Romans 8:37)."

"Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours; whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours; and ye are Christ's; Christ is God's (I Corinthians 3:21-23)."

How glorious! How tremendous! He is doing all of this for us! Everything He has is freely given to us, and through Him we possess all that He possesses. When He has all that we have, then we have all that He has. When we give Him all that we are, He gives us all that He is. Oh, the depth of this love! Oh, the depth of the richness of His grace to us! Who can understand it? Who can know it?

The chorus to a song comes to mind, that says

How could you not love Him back?
How could you hold out your heart
For even another day?
How could you not love Him back
When you've learned every loving fact?
How could you not love Him back?

Oh Jesus, may You have the Preeminence henceforth and Forever! [/color]


 2008/1/10 17:25
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

I AM

the desire of all Nations
meek and lowly of heart
the Fountain of Living Waters
despised and rejected of men
love
the Holy One
The Just
not far from everyone of you
the High and Lofty One
near to the brokenhearted
ascended on High
Highly Exalted
the One Whom they pierced
without sin
He that bore your sin
full of grace and truth
the Righteous Judge
He that tries men's hearts
He Who alone has immortality
the only Potentate
over all, God blessed for ever
risen from the dead
a stone of stumbling
a rock of offense
precious and chosen
far above all principality and power
your Savior and Redeemer
the Prince of Life
the Bread of Life
the Resurrection and the Life
the Way
the Truth
the Light that shines in the darkness
the true God, and Eternal Life

Jesus Christ


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/1/10 18:36Profile









 Re:

Chris, Thank you for this. It is beautiful. Did you compile this? What a blessing.
Thank you very much.
Keep looking UP. :-)
And thank you for 'that' thought too! [the cosmos].

His Love.
Annie

 2008/1/11 17:10
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Annie, praise be to God from Whom all blessings flow.


And thanks for the reminder about looking up

:-) :-)


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/1/11 20:07Profile









 Who is JESUS?


[color=CC3333][b][size=x-small][u]Jesus IS GOD and it Does matter![/u][/b][/color][/size]



Compare this site - http://www.islamic.org.uk/jesusgod.html



with this one - http://thriceholy.net/sonisgodf.html





How many religions, New Age groups, philosophers and so forth say that HE is Not GOD - Can you count them?




:cry:

 2008/2/12 15:57









 Re: Who is JESUS?

[size=xx-small] (This song has gone through my head since reading a brother's question on Ezek 38 and I thank him for it. Thank you brother. Thank You Jesus!)[/size]



[url=http://www.hymnsite.com/lyrics/umh462.sht][color=CC3333][b]'Tis So Sweet to Trust in Jesus[/url]


1. 'Tis so sweet to trust in Jesus,
and to take Him at His Word;
just to rest upon His promise,
and to know, "Thus saith the Lord."

Refrain:
Jesus, Jesus, how I trust Him!
How I've proved Him o'er and o'er!
Jesus, Jesus, precious Jesus!
O for grace to trust Him more!

2. O how sweet to trust in Jesus,
just to trust His cleansing blood;
and in simple faith to plunge me
'neath the healing, cleansing flood!

(Refrain)

3. Yes, 'tis sweet to trust in Jesus,
just from sin and self to cease;
just from Jesus simply taking
life and rest, and joy and peace.

(Refrain)

4. I'm so glad I learned to trust Thee,
precious Jesus, Savior, Friend;
and I know that Thou art with me,
wilt be with me to the end.

(Refrain) [/b][/color]

 2008/2/14 16:25
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

Hes the guy on the lead white horse, coming down out of heaven, sticking his sword through the Antichrist's head.

David

 2008/2/14 17:00Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

Oh....btw if you look closely you will see me a few horses back of Jesus.

I am riding next to the apostle Paul. We are the ones that look like maniacs.

David

 2008/2/14 17:10Profile
pastorfrin
Member



Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


 Re: Who is Jesus

THE LILY OF THE VALLEY


“I am a rose of Sharon, a lily of the valleys.” Song of Solomon 2:1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Charles W. Fry (1838-1882) & family
Courtesy of Salvation Army Words: Charles W. Fry, 1881; first ap­peared in the Sal­va­tion Ar­my’s The War Cry, De­cem­ber 29, 1881. Fry wrote the lyr­ics in Lin­coln, Eng­land, while work­ing with the Sal­va­tion Ar­my there.

Music: Wil­liam S. Hays; adapt­ed by Charles W. Fry (MI­DI, score).


William S. Hays (1837-1907)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have found a friend in Jesus, He’s everything to me,
He’s the fairest of ten thousand to my soul;
The Lily of the Valley, in Him alone I see
All I need to cleanse and make me fully whole.
In sorrow He’s my comfort, in trouble He’s my stay;
He tells me every care on Him to roll.

Refrain

He’s the Lily of the Valley, the Bright and Morning Star,
He’s the fairest of ten thousand to my soul.

He all my grief has taken, and all my sorrows borne;
In temptation He’s my strong and mighty tower;
I have all for Him forsaken, and all my idols torn
From my heart and now He keeps me by His power.
Though all the world forsake me, and Satan tempt me sore,
Through Jesus I shall safely reach the goal.

Refrain

He will never, never leave me, nor yet forsake me here,
While I live by faith and do His blessèd will;
A wall of fire about me, I’ve nothing now to fear,
From His manna He my hungry soul shall fill.
Then sweeping up to glory to see His blessèd face,
Where the rivers of delight shall ever roll.

Refrain

http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/l/i/lilyvall.htm


 2008/2/15 14:48Profile









 Re: Who is JESUS?


Thank you Pastorfrin - we needed the Blessing of that song - Amen! Thanks very much indeed!
___________________________________________________

Mike Oppenheimer is one of the Apologists in the Apologetic Coordination Team ["ACT"] - along with Jacob Prasch, Sandy Simpson, Juanita Simpson, Gary Giley, Jewel (van der Merwe) Grewe, Bill Randles, James Sundquist, Orrel Skeinkamp, Tom Smith, Robert Liichow, Steve Mitchell, Philip L. Powell and Michael Gendron.

You'll see why this is on - "Who is JESUS?" by time you finish.

[b][u]Excerpt[/u] from Mike Oppenheimer's Testimony[/b]

I was brought up Jewish, went to Shabbat quite faithfully each Friday and celebrated the holydays at the temple and with family. Our family like many others, gathered together on the high holy days in observance. I attended Hebrew school twice a week and learned the language and eventually was Bar Mitzvahed and confirmed. While attending classes I asked a lot of questions about God the Rabbi could not answer. Though I continued each year, mainly to please my parents, I became less interested in the traditional religion of my parents and feeling hindered in my spiritual development, leaped head first into my own brand of freestyle spirituality after graduation.
By my own search in reading and attending lectures and gatherings I got involved in the New Age Movement, became a vegetarian and for 15 years practiced yoga and meditation. I ended up using psychedelic drugs for a time (LSD, mescaline etc.), as part of my regular religious observances and smoking “pakalolo” (pot) became part of my normal lifestyle. During these times I also experimented with various religions and the occult. I felt they each contained some part of the truth of the one “true” religion, just as Rosicrucianism teaches all religions are petals on the same flower.
I studied about the Ancient Masters of the East, learning about Buddhism and Zen I picked up on a number of the practices. I had a number of spiritual experiences which at the time I was sure were from God and leading me to a greater knowledge of myself and Him. I discovered and believed in the Ascended Masters that were guiding our world into a greater evolutionary path. I was involved with UFO’s and channeled messages. I was sure I was on the right spiritual path because of the various signs things just fell into place. At the same time I also read the Bible (even the New Testament), not denying my Jewish roots. I began reading over 50 books a year, having an insatiable spiritual appetite, but God was working on my exit out of this spiritual bondage.

I had also started to surf before beginning my spiritual pilgrimage. I fell in love with the sport and began traveling, surfing and entering contests. Surfing became my livelihood after I learned to shape surfboards for a living. I became the NY champion for a number of years and eventually the eastern surfing champion for two years. Hawaii proved to be an irresistible attraction due to its fantastic surf. I moved permanently to Hawaii with my girlfriend Kathy in the mid 70's. This gave me more freedom to pursue both my first love of surfing and my freelance spirituality. We thought we were becoming enlightened. Reading books about the Ascended Masters involvement and “learning” about Earth’s past history on Lemuria and Atlantis. We desired to become servants of the New age movement, convinced that if we all united we could usher in an age of spiritual cooperation and enlightenment that so many were talking about. After nine years my searching came to a head when my girlfriend Kathy and I started to pursue our spiritual hunger more seriously and became involved in the “I Am Movement” (the Saint Germaine Society of the Ballard's). Through calling on angels and powers unknown to us and by “decreeing” and using the Violet Consuming Flame to eradicate past life karma, we were learning to become active in the New Age Movement. At the time, Kathy was practicing affirmations, mantras, studying herbology, polarity therapy, kinesiology and learning about the supposed spiritual energies of the body. She also was a manager of a health store on the Island of Oahu.

At the same time, the Lord started moving ahead with His rescue plan and during one week we had two friends over who had recently became Christians. One was also a surfer that I knew from New York. We talked about end-time events for hours. Since I was familiar with, as I had been reading the Bible for years, and was especially fascinated about the end of the age. (At that time we both thought Christians were very narrow minded about their view of the Bible, God and the world. Kathy and I used to laugh about how the New Age was coming in without Christians even being aware of it, and were still trying to live in the old traditions and were not going to be part of it). Later that week my friends invited us to a seminar that just so happened to be on the New Age Movement with speakers Dave Hunt, Johanna Michaelson and Hal Lindsey. Talk about timing! It was also during that same week that I heard an audible voice say, “I am the Lord your God, you shall not want.” I recognized this was from Psalm 23 from my Jewish upbringing and had never experienced anything like it. Inside I knew this was the God I was searching for but still did not know. It was only later I would understand why this voice was outside and not from inside me. [end excerpt. see -http://www.letusreason.org/testim.htm]



[b]Why I posted Mike's Testimony is because of the confusion that has entered the Church on what is God's~Jesus' Name(s).
Someone just getting saved today, could get very confused and feel guilt for not using the so-called "proper Names" and that is very sad, as the Names of God and Jesus are not what matters. Every language on earth call Him by their native tongue and He still hears them.
Anyone who casts guilt on new or old converts or makes them feel "inferior" in any way, should consider that, every nation has their own tongue and if they want to be Jewish, when they are not by birth, they should also consider the division/confusion/false guilt, that all of this questiong over 'His Name' could bring.

"....I become all things to all men...."not stumbling blocks to others" .... "unity of spirit".


[u]Excerpt[/u] from Mike Oppenheimer on His Name.[/b]

Someone spelling and pronouncing his name Yashua with an "a" as the second letter, reveals they have little knowledge about the Hebrew language. So they shouldn't be claiming linguistic knowledge about the name! The vowel sound after the letter yud is a shwaw sound (written in English as an upside-down "e"). Since we don't do that in normal English writing, we can use a right-side-up "e" or use an apostrophe after the "Y." So it can be Yeshua, or Y'shua, but its NOT YAshua. Nor does it make sense to say that Yeshua is pronounced the same in "every language" as they insist.

You would only be talking about the SYLLABLES, not the name itself or the meaning of the name. In other words, how do you say Yeshua in English? You say " Salvation." His name means God is Salvation. As the Scripture explains, "and you shall call His name Salvation (Yeshua), for it is He who will SAVE His people from their sins" (Mt. 1:21).
Likewise "and they shall call His name Immanuel," which is translated, "God with us." If we look carefully, the Bible explains the meaning of the name and that is exactly what is meant. When Paul wrote those who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved. We call upon Him the person for salvation. The name in itself does not save but the person who the name belongs to. The Messiah when he was a mere baby was brought to Simeon and he said "For my eyes have seen Your salvation which You have prepared before the face of all peoples, A light to bring revelation to the Gentiles, and the glory of Your people Israel." (Luke 2:30-32). Simeon did not say or see a name! He saw salvation, salvation is in the person, not in a pronunciation of a name. You can say his eyes saw Yeshua.

If you follow the migration of the SYLLABLES of the Hebrew name Yeshua to Greek and to Latin, and then to English -- you'll end up with Jesus. In Greek, the "Y" changes to an "I" and the "sh" to a hard "s" so it comes out Iesous. From there it goes to Latin, Iesus, and then in Germanic languages, the "y" SOUND is spelled with a "j", so we arrive with Jesus in English. Do any of these languages pronounce his name the "same"? No, of course not. Greek doesn't even HAVE a "sh" sound at all! The point is that one cannot do a direct translation of Yashua into the Greek language. This is why it is a different word or it would not make sense in its meaning. You can call something in its original language name and have others in another language pronounce it, but if they do not understand its meaning its meaningless. For example what if the translators kept all the word pronunciations from the Hebrew into the Greek then it would not make sense. Neither would his name. If one translates the name the way it is equally pronounced in certain other languages it would not have no meaning at all.

The Hebrew language is dependent on roots called the shorash. When any two words have the same roots they are connected theologically. Hosea= Hoshea, Isaiah= yeshayahu , Joshua= is yahooshua, Jesus is Yeshua, the sh sound often has something to do with salvation in the Hebrew language. When the Bible is translated to another language this may not always be transferred over.

Even the Orthodox Jews aren't sure any more how to pronounce the name Yahweh correctly. So how could anybody else claim something about the pronunciation of this Hebrew name in OTHER languages? The only thing you can do is to say it in your own language. How do you say Yahweh in English? The closest we can come to it is "I Am."

The name Yahweh (Tetragrammaton) is used 7000 times in the bible sometimes referring to the Messiah in Jer. 23:5, and Zech. 14.
The personality, the nature of God is not known in a pronunciation of his name. It is revealed in all His Holy Word not just his name. Psalms 138:2: “I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.” Quite the opposite of what the sacred name movement is saying. This does not men we dispense with his name but we need to speak it in whatever language it is written in. Whether its Hebrew, Greek, Russian etc. So if God’s word is written in different languages and it is exalted even above His name, doesn’t this diffuse any argument from the Sacred name position of speaking His name in the original language only.

How strict is God about his name being on Yahweh? Some say the Jews substituted speaking His name with the Hebrew title "Adonai" the Hebrew word for “lord or master.”

But Daniel calls God adonai in Dan.9:7,9,17 Job also in 28:28 adonay also Ps.2:4. Was he not saved for doing this? This is in the Scripture which is God breathed. Who then should we believe? Obadiah uses both adonai Yahweh together for His name.

In Isa.38:11 yah. The fact is that the word for Lord is pronounced many different ways and he, God (elohim) is not known by one name only. Elohim is used of God just as many times as Yahweh is (sometimes combined). The name can be pronounced Yehovaw, yehovee Ez.11:16; Deut.9:6,3:24 - Yehovih (yeh-ho-vee'); a variation of Strongs Concordance #3068 [used after 136, and pronounced by Jews as 430, in order to prevent the repetition of the same sound, since they elsewhere pronounce # 3068 as 136]:

The use of Iesous (Jesus) for Joshua was common long before the birth of our Savior which is found in the Greek Septuagint translation. The form was identical in the Old Testament Greek Septuagint (the precise transliteration is Iesous) to that of the New Testament text. The book of Yahoshua (Joshua) in the Greek Septuagint is Called Iseous naus meaning Joshua Son of Nun. So it was the Hebrews themselves that used this name in Greek before Jesus' time. Certainly they weren’t calling Joshua Zeus as some claim is Iseous for Jesus in the NT.

Before one trashes the name Jesus they need to look a little more carefully at what the bible actually has written. Instead of being God approved they just may be bringing division and destruction upon themselves for being zealous without the correct knowledge.[End Excerpt. See -
http://www.letusreason.org/sacna%202.htm]



[b]GOD looks at THE HEART of the one 'calling' upon HIM.[/b]

 2008/2/15 18:21





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