| Poster | Thread |
| | Ecumenical....advice | | I'm leading a ministry. We are 'ecumenical' for the sake of the gospel.
There are only 2 denominations im worried about serving the most.
Church of Christ and Pentacostal Holiness.
Both say you had to ADD a work to your salvation.
Church of Christ says you MUST be baptized that there is NO WAY around it.
Pentacostal Holiness says you MUST speak in tounges there is NO WAY around it.
Should I allow these to speak at meetings in the schools? (I lead a ministry that in sum up is...'Uniting the Church to reach the High/Middle schools for Christ, thru the avenue of Christian Club, and must be 100% student led clubs'.
I do believe both parties are saved. But, ugh, I've been trying to wrestle out this situation for a while. Waiting on God for an answer.
So far, I am just gonna concentrate on the churches that i know are good and then when it comes up, face it then. But like i'm still iffy on it all.
I would like some advice, and maybe if you know some men of God in the past that did alot for the Glory of God, id like to know. (About that certain denom. ...example John Wesley=Methodist....id like {person here}= Church of Christ or Pentacostal holiness).
Amen. |
|  2005/9/4 0:31 | | AsliEren
Member
Joined: 2005/2/3
Posts: 56
Dallas, Texas
| | Re: Ecumenical....advice | | I would say let them be a part of the evangelism effort after making sure they won't try to preach an additional requirement to the gospel. It's possible you might be able to ecuminisize them over to the true gospel of Jesus instead of them bringing you over to their false gospel. |
| | 2005/9/4 0:49 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Quote:
I would say let them be a part of the evangelism effort after making sure they won't try to preach an additional requirement to the gospel. It's possible you might be able to ecuminisize them over to the true gospel of Jesus instead of them bringing you over to their false gospel.
Absolutely not. How can we evangelize with a group who doesnt even believe the same gospel?? That makes about as much sense as working together with the Jehovah Witnesses to try to evangelize your neighborhood!
When we band together with other religions in order to reach people then we are evangelizing [b]our[/b] way, and not God's way.
God makes it clear in His Word:
[i]2Co 6:14-18 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.[/i]
People say "Well, we have to do this or that in order to reach the lost" ... and I say not if it means you have to disobey the Word of God. The ends DO NOT justify the means. And besides that... where is your faith? Doesnt any trust the Lord anymore to use us to reach the lost without having to be disobedient to scripture?
Do you really think the Church of Christ folks will agree to not teaching their doctrine of "salvation"? They are just as sincere about what they believe as you are... and they will want to preach their works salvation.
Your only asking for problems. I would find another way to reach kids than this one. If you have to yoke together with false religions in order to have this ministry, then I'm quite sure that God has something else in mind for you to be doing.
Quote:
It's possible you might be able to ecuminisize them over to the true gospel of Jesus instead of them bringing you over to their false gospel.
In the ministry God has allowed me to be a part of I have had people say to me "I'm dating this wonderful person"... and I ask "Is this person saved?" ... sometimes I hear "No, but I can win them to the Lord!" Thats what the quote above reminds me of. Please dont take offense of this, but what you wrote is terrible advise. I have to reject it strongly on this forum because I dont want someone somewhere to read that and think that it is good advise. If there is scripture to support your position, please present it.
I know this is a strong response I have written, and I DO NOT want this considered to be a personal attack. It is NOT. I consider this to be a very serious thing, and it is my desire to see the original poster be as used of God as he can be in reaching the lost. I simply want to point out what scripture says... and not what man thinks.
One last thing... I would not be too quick to lump Pentecostal Holiness Churches in the catagory of "false religions". I do not agree with their doctrine of tongues, but so far as I know they do not preach any salvation by works doctrines. You may be thinking of Pentecostal Oneness... which T.D. Jakes is part of, as well as the music group Phillips Craig & Dean. They do preach a false gospel, and deny the trinity.
Krispy |
| | 2005/9/4 7:50 | |
| | Re: dittos Krispy | | I really dont' have anything to add to what Krispy has said. You are bailing a ship that is doomed to sink. Come out from among them and be ye seperate, sayeth the Lord 2000 years ago. It is still ringing truth today.
Brother, if you want to make a difference, preach Jesus Christ an Him crucified. Leave the results up to God.
You might enjoy reading "No Compromise" by Keith Green as well.
In Him,
Lahry |
| | 2005/9/4 9:53 | |
| | Re: | | Krispy, very opinionated resently...
I have a few things against what you said.
Quote:
KrispyKrittr wrote:
How can we evangelize with a group who doesnt even believe the same gospel?? That makes about as much sense as working together with the Jehovah Witnesses to try to evangelize your neighborhood!
Do you really think the Church of Christ folks will agree to not teaching their doctrine of "salvation"? They are just as sincere about what they believe as you are... and they will want to preach their works salvation.
You just compared, as many have before. (with other denominations) A part of the body of Christ with a 'look-alike'. You compared JW's with Church of Christ.
I don't know about all the churches in your area, but after someone makes a commitment to Christ it might take like 6 months to 2 years for them to actually get baptised!!!!!! In this denomination, i believe it can be just taken as 'putting more of an focus on baptism' than making it a dogma for salvation. Even though this statement, popular among Church of Christ's, is ignorant, its still truth. "If someone doesn't get baptised and they repent on their death bed and receive Christ, its not my job to judge".
On their part, they say 'YOU MUST BE BAPTISED' (and if you truly stood by that, you'd stay by it with ANY QUESTION), but they are open to other circumstances. (Not being open to false doctrines, just on 'not knowing everything').
Quote:
One last thing... I would not be too quick to lump Pentecostal Holiness Churches in the catagory of "false religions". I do not agree with their doctrine of tongues, but so far as I know they do not preach any salvation by works doctrines.
"Tounges" its a WORK. Fyi. 'but so far as I know they do not preach any salvation by works (so i guess for the pentacostals tounges dont count as 'works') doctrines.'
They are PRETTY MUCH THE SAME AS THE CHURCH OF CHRIST, just instead of baptism its tounges.
So, i would give you ur statement back to you but in a little different.
**Modified quote of Krispy to Krispy from me** One last thing... I would not be too quick to lump Church of Christ Churches in the catagory of "false religions". I do not agree with their doctrine of baptism. But i would still classify them Christian by the Blood of the Lamb.
Does anyone else have insight? |
| | 2005/9/4 14:54 | | ZekeO
Member
Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa
| | Could be reading brail | | Quote:
YeshuaIsMyGd wrote:
Does anyone else have insight?
Don't know if I would class myself in the insight track, or is that the inside track...hmm, well whatever.
In my circle we have a saying what you get saved into is much more important than what you get saved out of. Example, I have a friend who is wonderful baptist believer. Did you see it? He is a 'baptist' believer, he got saved into that environment and now most of his meat is MacAurthur. Do you get what I'm saying? I'm trying to say allot without having to type an essay. If you had to ask me, all I could say is that I am a christian with charismatic tagged on the end to show my belief in the manifestation of the charimata. I simply could not tell, because I don't know. We just try and believe the bible.
Going off on another tangent, modes, styles, governmental structures are pretty solid in the outside world, but in this blessed place of SI, there is much scriptural truth. I don't think that I have ever seen any discussion end without the whole breadth of scriptural truth being weighed by those who particepate. I think that Greg, Mike and Jeremy need praise for their willingness to take their hands off and let God work things out as to what is brought forth. Everyones little grasp of truth adds to a rich tapestry of biblical modus operandi, praise God for all of you. Anyway I digress.
So bringing it to your situation, evangelising of these folk is okay, but it is the discipleship and growth of those disciples which will be affected by your alliance with these two groups.
_________________
Zeke Oosthuis
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| | 2005/9/4 15:46 | Profile |
| | Re: Could be reading brail | | Ah, you said the very wonderful word.
"Discipleship".
When that comes up, I would like to 'let the own church do their own discipling, at their own church, not in the school'. AND if that doesn't really happen, then start up a discipleship training in school, using Ray Comfort and Ron Luce's teachings. Both have extreme truth in their teachings/preaching. And i believe if my generation (i should actually still be in high school by my age bracket) take a grasp and HEED the teaching, being a doer of the word then we will see a 'youth revival'.
There are SOOO many hoopes to jump thru, so many tests that ONLY GOD can provide the solution.
I.e. Pride of Pastors, Pride of people, hard hearts, no desperation for revival..etc. |
| | 2005/9/4 20:00 | |
| | Re: | | YeshuaIsMyGd...
You have a wonderful way of getting off the topic.
Very quickly... the Church of Christ teaches that you are not saved if you have not been baptised. That is a fact from their own statement of faith. That is a works based salvation. You are misinformed. [b]And this is not just my opinion[/b].
Pentecostal Holiness I know for a fact does not teach that you are not saved if you have not spoken in tongues. They do preach Biblical salvation. I know this for a fact because we used to attend a Pentecostal Holiness church back in the day. They DO preach the intial evidence of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is speaking in tongues... and that is a doctrine that I have a problem with. But their doctrine of salvation is Biblical. This is a fact. [b]This is not just my opinion.[/b]
Pentecostal Oneness does teach that speaking in tongues is necessary for salvation. This is a works salvation. This is part of the statement of faith. This is a fact. [b]This is not just my opinion.[/b]
Now... if it's ok with you... lets get back to the topic of this thread...
It is horrible advise to yoke together with any false religion in order to evangelize people. That is a fact straight from scripture. [b]This is not just my opinion.[/b]
I'm not opinionated... I'm factual. Opinionated is giving advise such as was first given on this thread with absolutely no scritural evidence to back it up.
Krispy
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| | 2005/9/5 7:42 | |
| | Re: | | Ah, Krispy, i just realized something.
I meant Oneness. Not Holiness. I knew there was a difference, but woops! Yet again.
And everything i have said was on topic. The topic of the thread is 'ecumenical advice'. I have more than one problem and other things to think and pray about.
Quote:
KrispyKrittr wrote:
It is horrible advise to yoke together with any false religion in order to evangelize people. That is a fact straight from scripture.
If they are saved, and willing to 'put aside' that belief to preach the gospel, then i have no problem with it. They can keep their leaven in their church, not in mine.
I don't believe that is unbiblical. |
| | 2005/9/5 10:38 | |
| | Re: | | Quote:
If they are saved, and willing to 'put aside' that belief to preach the gospel, then i have no problem with it. They can keep their leaven in their church, not in mine.
Well, if they preach salvation by works, and they are trusting in baptism for their salvation... they are not saved, and the point is mute.
Right?
Krispy |
| | 2005/9/6 8:30 | |
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