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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Homosexuality and the kingdom of God

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 Re: Homosexuality and the kingdom of God

Brother Jeff,

I apologise for not waiting longer for you.

Also, let me say I do 'hear' what you're saying about the centrality of a relationship with God.

Let me tell you, I wanted a secure relationship with God and I hung around sometimes attending good charismatic house-church for as many as 5 times a week, attended conferences, worked my socks of in church activities and also ministered in other ways. I conformed outwardly. I had been given the Holy Spirit and gifts. But, I remained unhealed because no-one preached healing. If they did, the listener was supposed to know they had a reason to respond. I can't emphasise more strongly, how entirely I felt my difficulties in reaching peace with God were my own fault. The concept of healing was not associated in the preaching (or my mind) with any fault on the part of another. The kind of healing being talked about was things like - physical pain eg headache, the speeding up of normal healing after surgery, miraculous healing of cancer, or of pregnancy not going well, aloholism, drug addiction, depression. NO-ONE talked about emotional abuse, domestic violence, sexual molestation, betrayal of trust, demonic accusation, national disaster. What I would like you to take away from this post is, it is not 'either-or'; in many cases, it is God and man working together which produces the desired result.

Specifically on the matter of being sexually normal....

I keep hearing of testimonies which speak of striving to have one's sexual desires satisfied by unnatural or natural sources. We know that fornication, adultery, and unnatural desires are outward manifestations of sin.

These outworkings of sexuality are important. What you seem to be missing is, the understanding that those who need psychosexual therapy, are living in a much more extreme place than the man or woman whose Christianity requires them to exercise self-control according to the Spirit which is able to bear this fruit in them. While bearing in mind what 'normal' means (attraction towards the opposite) there can be a very wide range of differences of 'gender' - that is, what the individual has been cultivated to 'think' is normal. The connections between the 'thinking' and the [i]being[/i] (which a normal person has never had disrupted) do need to be examined (even if only in the presence of God privately) before He can fix anything. Always, there are reasons people end up thinking weird things. The problem is that they've come to [i]believe[/i] them and function abnormally. This isn't Sunday morning material (although it should not be swept under the carpet); believers come together to worship the Lord and celebrate Him, and those on the edges of the fellowship who feel like lepers inwardly, need some legitimate point of contact where these realities can be safely explored. I'm not certain the rest of the 'body' (the church) [i]should[/i] be protected from the 'pain' in their midst, but I am sure, the Lord intends to heal. The difficulty is in the individual making contact with the Lord (or, the Lord coming to them, if they are very incapacitated) when it is made very clear by leadership that the honesty required to do so, is not welcome there at church - or in public. I've been in a meeting where a lady was praying in such a way as to indicate she had been abused by both grandparents, whose needs were not unknown to the elders, but, she was being shooshed. What good is that? It's because of this sort of atmosphere, that people like her end up [i]requiring[/i] community psychiatric support.

 2005/9/13 18:05

Joined: 2005/5/25
Posts: 189

 Re:God will lead you through. ZIONSLAVE

Zionslave no one wants to hurt you we doall get missunderstanings and read differently into things

That is how people would have seen, my very youngest brother about 8yrs ago. who....
My brother 4yrs drugs and other years before, alcaholic, squating, in squates freezing in the winter etc Holland.
Dreadlocks in his hair.
Cuts on the arms as well as despair, depression, dying.

Our fervent prayers were answered, truly a miracle. He stuggled for a year or so after. That was because of so much in life that he had lived through since 8yrs old.
Dad Died. Two years later, Older Brother committed Suicide, we have brother with Bipolar. 10 years later another brother died. 4yrs later our nephew 21yrs old, died because of drugs. he was messed up with drugs in London where he lived. into allsorts. But his Dad, my Brother who commited suicde,when he was 5yrs old.

So my brother came to the Lord and has been living and working at a christian church in Devon UK for the last 8years, without pay he trust in the Lord for his needs.
He goes to do some work in Romania next Month.

I have many sad stories to tell about Family Of all kinds.

I am sure without any dought, that you have very much experience, including music things that are bad. My brother met demons in that life. Saw so much just LIKE YOU. God has brought you through, open your Heart, and your mind, and your spirit to God. And find the secrets he wants to impart to you. He has so much for to do, in this life for him. Let God prepare you.
Have you been filled with the Holy Spirit. When you stopped all the drugs etc.

He does say he will refine us, and that he will mould us, into what he needs, to lead us, gaurd us, guide us along.
Your unique speacial Walk With Him, that he has for.

I don't know where you are taught about the bible.

Do'nt be shocked if something goes a little different, to what you think is happenning. That is what I meant. If things change and you need us please, let us know some on here will relate to your needs.

Our needs don't end, all walking with God have come to know this, through many of lifes experienc's. that will come before us and God will lead you through.

We are not here to hurt you but to help you.

I would like to be one of the first to hear, what God has had you doing for him, as and when they happen. We look forward to your wonderful growth in Almighty God.
Amen, Hallelua, Glory, God of all Power and Majesty. I give to you ZIONSLAVE, who is so grateful for what you have done and are going to do for him and with him Amen.


 2005/9/13 22:12Profile

Joined: 2003/11/29
Posts: 20
Orlando, Florida


Thanks ellie,

I actually was thinking of you this morning. Asking the Lord to search my heart. I still have much to learn. I want to give a pure picture of Christ and his work, and a strong picture of His power. I was asking the Lord to show me if I was wrong about my comments about His healing. I always try to ask for guidance during my posts. I know people search these forums for truth. They need it like they need bread. They want something real. They need true love. Agape love. Its here. I know it his because of the strong testimony of the healing blood of the only begotten.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Rom 5:11 And not only [so], but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

I am praying with you and your family. I appreciate you sharing that information about your struggles. Yes. The Lord is gracious. Christ is greater than all the demons and legions and realms of evil combined. The Spirit indeed is willing but the flesh is weak. It is easily baffled by the confusion of the lawless. However!!!,,,....WE ARE MORE THAN CONQUERERS!!!!!!!!!! Much love to you and yours. Your brother needs prayer even now. What a place to serve! In the heart of evil. Selah.


 2005/9/14 19:17Profile

Joined: 2005/5/25
Posts: 189


Much love to you and yours. Your brother needs prayer even now.

What does the following mean, I don't understand?

Quote: What a place to serve! In the heart of evil. Selah.


 2005/9/14 19:24Profile

Joined: 2004/4/5
Posts: 952

 Re: To Ellie, Ellie

Only Eternity will reveal how many people you have helped with your Testimony.
Thank-you for your Honesty.

Hopefully, one day, I too, will feel free to share.

Our God is Wonderful!
He is a God of LOve.

God Bless you, richly in Him.
Nellie :-)

 2005/9/14 21:34Profile

Joined: 2003/11/29
Posts: 20
Orlando, Florida


It just means that I beleive Europe to be the continent that is the most evil of all. And that it is an amazing thing that the Lord has thought your brother faithful enough to preach there.


 2005/9/17 21:33Profile

Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


Sister Dorcas,

I agree with you, in that, God works through men and women to bring healing in all sorts of ways. I believe God uses non-believers to perform the things He has determined. This is all Scriptural. When I mentioned the thought of relying on the empty philosophies of men, I should have taken the time to be more clear.

Sister wrote:

While bearing in mind what 'normal' means (attraction towards the opposite) there can be a very wide range of differences of 'gender' - that is, what the individual has been cultivated to 'think' is normal. The connections between the 'thinking' and the being (which a normal person has never had disrupted) do need to be examined (even if only in the presence of God privately) before He can fix anything. Always, there are reasons people end up thinking weird things. The problem is that they've come to believe them and function abnormally.

Psalm 119

57 You are my portion, O LORD;
I have said that I would keep Your words.
58 I entreated Your favor with my whole heart;
Be merciful to me according to Your word.
59 I thought about my ways,
And turned my feet to Your testimonies.

We all, we fallen and depraved individuals suffer from what is called rational thought. We are rational beings because we learn from one another. We experience fellowship with other fallen individuals. The 'substance" of what we hope for is the product of what we do and think. This is the carnal man. The carnal mind cannot please God. The carnal mind makes us an enemy of God. Listen to verse 59.

"I thought about my ways and turned my feet your testimonies."

God's testimonies are the "substance" which have replaced what was once hoped for by the writer of Psalm 119. Experiencing God caused him to consider his old ways. This man was enabled by God to see his own ways in light of God's influence in his life. The beauty of the truth is realize as one turns his feet towards God. This man also speaks of the hardships that come with salvation.

Psalm 119

65 You have dealt well with Your servant,
O LORD, according to Your word.
66 Teach me good judgment and knowledge,
For I believe Your commandments.
67 Before I was afflicted I went astray,
But now I keep Your word.
68 You are good, and do good;
Teach me Your statutes.

71 It is good for me that I have been afflicted,
That I may learn Your statutes.
72 The law of Your mouth is better to me
Than thousands of coins of gold and silver.
73 Your hands have made me and fashioned me;
Give me understanding, that I may learn Your commandments.
74 Those who fear You will be glad when they see me,
Because I have hoped in Your word.
75 I know, O LORD, that Your judgments are right,
And that in faithfulness You have afflicted me.

This man has been freed from that which once held him in bondage to the carnal mind. As we too travel along the path we too will experience God's judgements, commands, and afflictions. Listen to his testimony.

120 My flesh trembles for fear of You,
And I am afraid of Your judgments.

Listen to his prayer.

174 I long for Your salvation, O LORD,
And Your law is my delight.
175 Let my soul live, and it shall praise You;
And let Your judgments help me.
176 I have gone astray like a lost sheep;
Seek Your servant,
For I do not forget Your commandments.

Now a rational being without God's light will look upon this experience and ask how can this be good? He has not experienced the "substance" that is from God. A rational being cannot see that the "substance of what he hope for" is actually the very things that bind him.

So whatever behavior that is termed "normal or abnormal" is the consequence of rational thought. Scripture gives us various pictures of past generations. What seemed normal in one generation was an abomination in another generation and viseversa. I live in California. I have witnessed the efforts of those who seek to convince this generation that those who practice homosexuality are normal and healthy. It is said that this next generation here in the U.S. already accepts this precept. So what is abnormal today will be normal tomorrow. This manifestation in Scripture always preceded God's judgement.

Out of time
In Christ

Jeff Marshalek

 2005/9/19 16:14Profile

Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


Psalm 119:

129 Your testimonies are wonderful;
Therefore my soul keeps them.
130 The entrance of Your words gives light;
It gives understanding to the simple.
131 I opened my mouth and panted,
For I longed for Your commandments.
132 Look upon me and be merciful to me,
As Your custom is toward those who love Your name.
133 Direct my steps by Your word,
And let no iniquity have dominion over me.

In this thought of Scripture, this man speaks of God's wonderful testimonies. The source of this man's joy comes from understanding how God delivers one from bondage. It is the existence of this testimony which changes what this man hopes for. The light that God sheds upon this man is the means by which this man overcomes iniquity in his life. God's grace fills and satisfies the thirst of this man. It comes by understanding how God delivers us from that which binds us. Having begun to walk the ancient path with God, having tasted the freedom that understanding brings give us the desire for more of Him. This man's heart cries out,

"133 Direct my steps by Your word,
And let no iniquity have dominion over me."

This man knows that within himself there is nothing that can free him from the bondage of the carnal life. He like Paul cries out, "24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?"

This precept is for every man and woman who enters into a relationship with God through His Son Jesus. God seeks to reveal His Son in us. The revelation of His Son, The Life, fills us with a love, a power that overcomes those things that seperate us from Him. Abiding in Him will cause our hearts to cry out Abba Father. We learn by living with Him. As Jesus' heart cried out for His Father so will all who walk with Him. This is the predestined work of God in those who inherit the promise.

So can one who seeks help from those who don't believe in God help a believer overcome that which binds?

Is the "substance" for what they hope for found in seeking to build one's self esteem or is the "substance" found outside of our self?

Got to go
In Christ

Jeff Marshalek

 2005/9/19 18:13Profile


I haven't weighed in on this one, because the title had me a little leary, because of Katrina and all, I was still grieving so many deaths, etc. and sure couldn't handle much more talk about 'killing sinners'.

But today, I got up the gumption to read the 4 pg.s thus far, and was so blessed by everyone's response. Not only to each other, but by responses to the 'fallen nature' of man and God's healing abilities.

I blame the Pastor's in a way, and then the older sheep, for so much hurt and hurting in the Church.

IF, If, if, only the 'gifts' were abounding by so-called shepherds, then so many could be healed.
Or at least, if the Shepherds made a safe sheep-fold for the mature in Christ to be used in the gifts, this too could help the many.

A Church should be like a Hospital.

Anyhow, when I got saved and went through so much .... I went home to live with my parents for a while back then, and just picked a Church out of the yellow pages. (in 1978)

After a few Sundays there... the Lord spoke to my heart, that "that Pastor is going to help you".

I kept it in my heart, but he and I had never spoken or anything.

I think it was shortly after, as all were leaving the Church, and he stood at the back, when he shook my hand, he said, "I do Biblical counciling, if you want to make an appt."

I was shocked. There was no way on earth, that man could have known how broken up I was inside from my annuled marriage, because I was raised to be or at least 'look stoic'. Ha.

In two sessions with that man of God, my insides were healed. And Why ... because he was a very humble yet intelligent man, but 'mostly' because he actually had the gifts of the Spirit working in him and had the 'word of knowledge, wisdom and discernment' going on, all at the same time and was what the Word would just call, a Real Shepherd to his flock. Glory to God.

I pray the gifts become more manifest among us and that we can leave the intellect more in the back seat. Then we can hit the heart of the matter, individually and not treat all the same.
No two folks on here are the same, so each needs to be handled differently... but only God can show us which and how, etc. This I pray.

Thanks to all who've contributed to this thread.
It was nice to sit back and read.

God Bless you all.
me again.

 2005/9/19 21:03

Joined: 2005/5/25
Posts: 189

 Re: GrannieAnnie on 2005/9/20

Dear GrannieAnnie,

All that you have written is so, beautifully written and imparted to us of such a love of God, for us all.
In that, his purpose being imparted to us, through the Holy Spirit of God, from God to us, for ourselves, and others.

It is true and yes, I agree the word 'Hospital' sums it up.

Your Testimony, of how God moved in your life that very day at the Church, is very moving and the simplicity of Gods love poured out to you.

Compared to, the world of Christians who can prevent, Gods Mercy and Grace to freely flow. Because of our own complicated thoughts and ways of how we think and to instead, place it all before the Throne of God. To wait on Him, to receive his ways and thoughts, His Will be Done.

Glory to god.

I felt the gentleness of God toward me, as I read your Thread.


 2005/9/21 9:32Profile

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